Musical Mondays Week 94 Funny Girl

[Cameron H. 23786]

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We watched;

[Cameron H. 23786]

As I said on Letterboxd, I kind of struggled with this one. It’s not that I couldn’t recognize it for being good, I get it, but I felt like the angle they chose wasn’t all that compelling. It’s a Musical about the first female comedian, but it gets reduced to a pretty generic love story. I would have much preferred to watch her struggles in the industry.  Instead, we get one (admittedly awesome) performance, and then boom, she’s famous. From then on, the focus drifts from her career to her marriage. Hell, if that’s the case, then you might as well include her failed first marriage and made a statement as to why Arnstein was so compelling to her (other than “he’s pretty”) and how Showbiz can be detrimental to personal relationships.

I mean, I didn’t hate it. It was well done. But it left me pretty cold.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

10 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

As I said on Letterboxd, I kind of struggled with this one. It’s not that I couldn’t recognize it for being good, I get it, but I felt like the angle they chose wasn’t all that compelling. It’s a Musical about the first female comedian, but it gets reduced to a pretty generic love story. I would have much preferred to watch her struggles in the industry.  Instead, we get one (admittedly awesome) performance, and then boom, she’s famous. From then on, the focus drifts from her career to her marriage. Hell, if that’s the case, then you might as well include her failed first marriage and made a statement as to why Arnstein was so compelling to her (other than “he’s pretty”) and how Showbiz can be detrimental to personal relationships.

I mean, I didn’t hate it. It was well done. But it left me pretty cold.

I would agree about showing the first marriage.  That there WAS a first marriage kind of leaves all her angst about not being pretty kind of toothless.  Somebody thought she was pretty enough to marry so her worrying about it (and all her mother's kibitzing) didn't ring true.  However I didn't know about the first marriage when I watched this so I bought into it all.  Streisand is very good at playing neurotic.

I also found out she played this role on Broadway several years before the movie came out.  She did a good job in the movie at making each surprise and twist seem new to her.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

One other thing I am glad for is the divorce didn't go all War of the Roses and have a bunch of screaming and fighting.  That may have happened in real life but doesn't make for "entertainment" on the screen when you're trying to celebrate someone's life.

I agree about the musical taking a back seat.  I was worried this was going to be another The Perils of Pauline, where we get two awesome songs & performances by Betty Hutton early on then literally not another song for the rest of the movie.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

17 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

I mean, I didn’t hate it. It was well done. But it left me pretty cold.

Are you sure you weren't watching The Iceman Cometh?

[Cameron H. 23786]

21 minutes ago, Cinco DeNio said:

One other thing I am glad for is the divorce didn't go all War of the Roses and have a bunch of screaming and fighting.  That may have happened in real life but doesn't make for "entertainment" on the screen when you're trying to celebrate someone's life.

I think that’s a good way articulate my issue with the film. It wasn’t a celebration of her life, it was a tabloid account of her marriage.

[grudlian. 4725]

1 hour ago, Cinco DeNio said:

I would agree about showing the first marriage.  That there WAS a first marriage kind of leaves all her angst about not being pretty kind of toothless.  Somebody thought she was pretty enough to marry so her worrying about it (and all her mother's kibitzing) didn't ring true.  However I didn't know about the first marriage when I watched this so I bought into it all.  Streisand is very good at playing neurotic.

I also found out she played this role on Broadway several years before the movie came out.  She did a good job in the movie at making each surprise and twist seem new to her.

Also, it seems kind of weird to have Barbra Streisand keep talking about how unatttactive she is. She's not as hot as Omar Sharif in this movie but who is?

I came away from this movie not actually knowing any more about Fanny Brice than I did going into it. That's about as bad a thing as one can say about a biographical film. I get the feeling it's not even particularly accurate to her personality (but that's pure speculation).

Honestly, all that takes a break seat to this just not being my type of movie. I can appreciate this. There were some great little touches like the woman married to a dentist having braces, or Fanny saying "give me six reasons why..." I like hearing the origins of a bunch of songs I didn't know all came from the same musical. But this goes in the "glad I saw it" more than I actually enjoyed it. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

7 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I get the feeling it's not even particularly accurate to her personality (but that's pure speculation).

Like, one of her big things was this Baby Snooks character, which she kind of did for the press at the very end of the movie.

I agree, I don't know a whole lot about her, but being a  movie about a comedienne, I guess I expected it to have a lot more humor and a lot less melodrama. I mean, maybe that's not fair. It's not like the movie Chaplin is a laugh riot, or much better as a biopic, but at least it showed a little more of his craft.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

16 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I came away from this movie not actually knowing any more about Fanny Brice than I did going into it. That's about as bad a thing as one can say about a biographical film. I get the feeling it's not even particularly accurate to her personality (but that's pure speculation).

Yea, this. My big question is actually, she seems pretty mediocre, right? I didn't quite get how she succeeded. She had characters and stuff? 

[Cameron H. 23786]

2 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea, this. My big question is actually, she seems pretty mediocre, right? I didn't quite get how she succeeded. She had characters and stuff? 

Yeah, the movie begins with "You'll never make it. You're not pretty enough." And then after one performance at pretty suspect venue, she's suddenly a huge hit. I'm sure this is abbreviated for the movie, but to what end? Why even bother setting it up if you're not going to make it matter? I guess it's to give their love story more room to breathe, but...yawn? 

[grudlian. 4725]

20 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Like, one of her big things was this Baby Snooks character, which she kind of did for the press at the very end of the movie.

I agree, I don't know a whole lot about her, but being a  movie about a comedienne, I guess I expected it to have a lot more humor and a lot less melodrama. I mean, maybe that's not fair. It's not like the movie Chaplin is a laugh riot, or much better as a biopic, but at least it showed a little more of his craft.

I never saw Chaplin but I was thinking of this along the lines of Apatow's Funny People.

9 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Yea, this. My big question is actually, she seems pretty mediocre, right? I didn't quite get how she succeeded. She had characters and stuff? 

I assume she was a big name at the time and very influential but kind of lost on the modern era. But I honestly don't know. 

[GrahamS. 803]

19 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

Also, it seems kind of weird to have Barbra Streisand keep talking about how unatttactive she is. She's not as hot as Omar Sharif in this movie but who is?

I came away from this movie not actually knowing any more about Fanny Brice than I did going into it. That's about as bad a thing as one can say about a biographical film. I get the feeling it's not even particularly accurate to her personality (but that's pure speculation).

Honestly, all that takes a break seat to this just not being my type of movie. I can appreciate this. There were some great little touches like the woman married to a dentist having braces, or Fanny saying "give me six reasons why..." I like hearing the origins of a bunch of songs I didn't know all came from the same musical. But this goes in the "glad I saw it" more than I actually enjoyed it. 

It started off with the first half being better than I expected, but then once it left the Follies behind, the more bored I became. I was pretty much on my phone for most of the second half of the movie. I can definitely see why Streisand won an Oscar—it’s a show-stopping performance. Unfortunately, everyone else is pretty one-dimensional. It’s actually fairly.amazing that the first half works as well as it does, then the second half is completely flat.

I agree, every time she was self-conscious about her looks, I could not tell WTF she was talking about. She was made to look as stunning as can be in every shot. I thought the film might be trying to make some commentary on beauty and fame, but I also thought (based on the rest of the movie) that I might be giving the movie too much credit. It was weird.

i actually like War of the Roses and think the second half of this film would have been much more entertaining if they were trying to murder each other/serving mystery-meat pate. At least then we wouldn’t spend an hour and change on Omar Sharif’s gambling problem.

[GrahamS. 803]

It also didn’t work as a biopic.

[GrahamS. 803]

I came up with this game in my head that I can’t get rid of. Since this film doesn’t work as biopic and as a whole—it’s more like two parts jammed together—how could it combine with another movie to be more interesting? The movies do not have to be in any related, era/genre/otherwise.

The second half still focuses on the Streisand/Sharif characters jammed into other movies. I call it The Funny Girl Snyder Cut. Just for shits and giggles. It can still be a musical.

For example, the first half would still be Ziegfeld Follies, the second half would morph into:

Chitty Chitty Bang Bang

Who’s afraid of Virginia Wolfe?

Tranformers: Revenge of the Fallen

The Shining (Barbra would have Jack’s part, Omar would be Shelley Duvall)

Mommy Dearest

Cujo

Misery

Children of the Corn

The Dead Zone

Reservoir Dogs.

i didn’t get enough sleep last night and this is the result. Who’s next?

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

I think it should just morph into other biopics. Like Fanny falls in love with Chaplin or Raging Bull and that's the second half

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

It also didn’t work as a biopic.

Even though the standard biopic formula can be awfully trite at this point, I would have probably preferred a standard biopic to this. Or maybe I should have read the wikipedia article before watching this (though I didn't know beforehand that this was based on a real person).

For example, Fanny Brice died only a few years before the stage musical. I have to assume most people seeing this at least knew who she was. My Man was apparently her signature song and I assumed it was original to the musical.

I don't blame the movie for my ignorance on the principal character but I think I would have appreciated this more with some kind of context. Imagine watching Judy and not knowing Over The Rainbow was her song. 

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

My wife and I have worked in the theatre for 25 years and we both felt that this was a major gap in our musical knowledge. So, seeing this felt like a way of ticking something off the list more than anything. Twice, with 'People' and 'Don't Rain on my Parade', my wife said 'OH! That's from this?!', but without those numbers this thing felt pretty aimless. More than anything, I was amazed that it seemed the composers' primary job was to come up with five or six 'follies'-style numbers that could be performed anywhere, rather than using the music to move the story along. 

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

ALSO.

Did anyone see that god-awful 'Blinded By the Light' last year? (I am looking at letterboxd and it seems like a few of you have, and no one hated it as much as I did, but here's my review of it: https://letterboxd.com/shaksper/film/blinded-by-the-light-2019/)

One of the major issues I had with that movie was that it featured a writer character who was apparently miraculously gifted, but the writers of the movie didn't have the talent to write him material that was actually in line with how everyone was reacting to him. So they cut away just about every time he's about to read his stories out and we have to take their word. So much of 'Funny Girl' felt like that for me with Fanny - I kept wanting to see how AMAZING she was but all we saw was her and the other girls getting on and off trains. Show us the shows in Baltimore, ffs! Dazzle us! Because it seems the only reason she's famous is because she goes in and deliberately sabotages other peoples' work just to get a laugh. I don't care how funny you are, that's so unprofessional and would get you fired no matter what.

I wanted to like this more, but in the end... meh.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Cakebug Tranch said:

Twice, with 'People' and 'Don't Rain on my Parade', my wife said 'OH! That's from this?!',

Same. “Don’t Rain on my Parade” made me sit up for a moment.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Cakebug Tranch said:

ALSO.

Did anyone see that god-awful 'Blinded By the Light' last year? (I am looking at letterboxd and it seems like a few of you have, and no one hated it as much as I did, but here's my review of it: https://letterboxd.com/shaksper/film/blinded-by-the-light-2019/)

One of the major issues I had with that movie was that it featured a writer character who was apparently miraculously gifted, but the writers of the movie didn't have the talent to write him material that was actually in line with how everyone was reacting to him. So they cut away just about every time he's about to read his stories out and we have to take their word. So much of 'Funny Girl' felt like that for me with Fanny - I kept wanting to see how AMAZING she was but all we saw was her and the other girls getting on and off trains. Show us the shows in Baltimore, ffs! Dazzle us! Because it seems the only reason she's famous is because she goes in and deliberately sabotages other peoples' work just to get a laugh. I don't care how funny you are, that's so unprofessional and would get you fired no matter what.

I wanted to like this more, but in the end... meh.

I get that complaint, but in that case, it didn’t bother me too much. I think it’s really hard to write a character that’s supposed to be “good at writing” because that means that the actual writer has to be just as good, if not better, than the fictional person they’re creating. It’s the same issue as having a Sherlock Holmes-type character, who is supposed to be hyper intelligent, being written by someone with average intelligence. I’m not saying it can’t or doesn’t happen, but I get using some tricks—especially if they’re done well.

I wonder, though, since Blinded was “inspired by a true story,” if the fragments of writing we are privy to are real or made up...

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

10 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

i actually like War of the Roses and think the second half of this film would have been much more entertaining if they were trying to murder each other/serving mystery-meat pate. At least then we wouldn’t spend an hour and change on Omar Sharif’s gambling problem.

I wonder if Funny Lady is along those lines.  I get that kind of vibe from the cover art.  James Caan doesn't look very happy.  I'll watch it in the next day or so.  (It's about her 3rd marriage, to Billy Rose.)

(EDIT: I removed the third picture.  The first two were enough.)

He doesn't look happy in this People shot either.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

I always associated Don't Rain on My Parade with Streisand, but only because my mother is a big Streisand fan and I had to watch the Streisand concert(s) on tv.  Still didn't know it was from Funny Girl until recently though.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I agree with a lot of what has been said but I will throw on top another thing I had a problem with is I found both of them to be selfish people. I found out after watching that this was based on real people and it made me wonder if it is an accurate representation of the real people. Fanny was forever just doing whatever she wanted without care for the audience, the producers, the directors, her co-workers, and later her husband. I get that she was driven and everything but her raise to success was underplayed for her to be such a selfish character to me. Like mention she claims of being ugly and that hold her back, but we don't really see that. We get a scene a start but ultimately because she gets helped out right away so it doesn't matter and wasn't really a struggle. Everything she does just always works out for her and we don't see any of the struggle, so she just comes across as selfish. It doesn't help that she rarely has any moments where her defenses are down and actually talks to people. It's just a series of snappy comebacks. That's not to say Omar Sharif was any better. Again a man who leads a girl on and then just disappears for a year and a half because he does things on a whim and follows luck and fortune just makes him come off as selfish as well. The only reason she's falling for him is because he's handsome, because personality wise he's selfish and only thinking of his needs. There is no doubt once they spent time together they did fall in love but I found it hard to get invested in their relationship.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I watched Funny Lady overnight and enjoyed it overall.  (I'm not sure how much of that is from having seen the first movie recently.  If I had to wait seven years for it I might not have had the same affection.)  James Caan does a much better job than I expected.  Billy Rose is still a world-class asshole, and it's stupid how easily Fanny gives in, but she (spoiler alert) does get her own back in the end.  We get to see a lot more of Fanny's inner thoughts and how she deals with things, instead of the slapdash style of the first movie.

Several people commented on how Barbra was made to look stunning in Funny Girl.  In Funny Lady that's dialed up a few notches, including the sex appeal with some very revealing costumes.  There are some troublesome "blackface" or "Lawd, save us" numbers.  (The latter has the most revealing costume.)  Ben Vereen has a part in the worst blackface song and then has a solo a short while later.  I am surprised that a 1970s musical would have troublesome numbers in it, even if it is depicting the 1930s.

I enjoyed it and wouldn't mind seeing it again.  For others, let me quote the best Letterboxd review from indi: "my parade: rained on". (I just had to add that since several people mentioned "Don't Rain on my Parade".)

[Cameron H. 23786]

Without being too negative, does anyone have a Streisand movie that they do like? (looking at you @tomspanks) I know a couple of you watched her version of A Star is Born, but as I said when we covered the original, I just don't think I like that story, so I doubt I would like her version any better.