Week 99 Little Shop of Horrors

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

From the guys who brought you such innocent classics as The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast, comes this?!?  We watched

[grudlian. 4725]

I watched both versions and that inexplicable two part episode of Head Of The Class where they performed the play. I really liked all versions of this.

I really wish I could have been there when they came up with the idea of writing a musical based on an b movie. I can only imagine someone being really high like "what a great idea!" and escalating beyond their control until it was done.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

32 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I watched both versions and that inexplicable two part episode of Head Of The Class where they performed the play. I really liked all versions of this.

I really wish I could have been there when they came up with the idea of writing a musical based on an b movie. I can only imagine someone being really high like "what a great idea!" and escalating beyond their control until it was done.

You made me go searching.  From an NYU Teacher's Guide I found this.

Quote

In the early 1980s when this musical was written and produced, clothes were colorful and tight, but wallets were tighter. The wealthy got wealthier and the poor and downtrodden got poorer. In an effort to escape their bleak existence, the lower classes had two options: revel in their life of squalor and disappear into drug addiction, or dream of a time when life was simpler and it wasn't so difficult to get by.  For some, this was a time of street fashion and punk music; for others, it was a time for a resurgence of music from times gone by. The creators of this musical (Howard Ashman and Alan Menken - composers of the music to several popular animated Disney films including The Little Mermaid and Beauty and the Beast) wanted to reflect this convergence of culture in a parody of a 1950s Roger Corman Sci­fi B­Movie (featuring a then­unknown Jack Nicholson). To illuminate the "horrors", they included music that was heavily influenced by 1960s girl groups like The Chiffons, The Ronettes, and The Crystals (the main Doo-­Wop girls are named for them). The result is a terrifyingly funny take on what could happen to those who step outside of their comfort zones and dare to dream.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Little Shop is a movie I didn't discover until I was already an adult, but it never ceases to please me. There are so many wonderful cameos, and Rick Moranis and Ellen Greene are phenomenal. 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I just found this on a different website.

The success of Little Shop Of Horrors put the team  of Howard Ashman and Alan Menken on the map.  That helped catch the attention of Disney, who hired the team to write all of the songs for the hit Disney films The Little Mermaid, Beauty and the Beast, and Aladdin.

Without Little Shop we might never have had the Disney musicals.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I love this movie. In fact it is one of a handful of movie I own multiple DVDs. The songs are all super catchy, all the performances are top notch and perfectly cast. It's a perfect movie and musical as far as I'm concerned.

I will say as a child of the 80s and Saturday morning cartoons, I don't know what I think of first when I hear Levi Stubbs, Mother Brain or Audrey II. However, seeing this on stage a few times, nobody has ever been able to live up to Levi Stubbs.

[grudlian. 4725]

I definitely knew Mother Brain before Audrey II. The first time I watched this, I definitely was wracking my brain trying to figure out where I knew the voice from.

So, just to confirm, everyone watched the director's cut ending right? Even if you watched the theatrical cut, the directors cut ending is available on youtube and I recommend checking it out.

[AlmostAGhost 2718]

I love the decision-making most of all. I mean, to make the voice of Audrey II a sassy soul singer? Genius. I don't know if that's the way it is in the Broadway version but wherever that choice was made, it's great. There's decisions like that all through the movie that maybe seem super crazy, but end up working.

[grudlian. 4725]

22 minutes ago, AlmostAGhost said:

I love the decision-making most of all. I mean, to make the voice of Audrey II a sassy soul singer? Genius. I don't know if that's the way it is in the Broadway version but wherever that choice was made, it's great. There's decisions like that all through the movie that maybe seem super crazy, but end up working.

For sure on Levi Stubbs. I have never heard him speak and I want to believe it's his normal speaking voice. It wouldn't explain why he doesn't sound like that singing, but...I just need that to be his voice.

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

I realized I forgot the tagline I was going to use for the thread: "Honey, I Blew Up the Plant".  Oh well.

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

7 hours ago, grudlian. said:

I really wish I could have been there when they came up with the idea of writing a musical based on an b movie. I can only imagine someone being really high like "what a great idea!" and escalating beyond their control until it was done.

This is something I think about a lot. Honestly, it's probably why I'm attracted to things like HDTGM, MST3K and Rifftrax in the first place. I love to think that there's no such thing as a bad idea. That anything can work given the right circumstances or medium.

Like a lot of people, I get frustrated with all the reboots in Hollywood of successful movies. I really wish they would take old B-Movies and reboot them to work.

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

This is something I think about a lot. Honestly, it's probably why I'm attracted to things like HDTGM, MST3K and Rifftrax in the first place. I love to think that there's no such thing as a bad idea. That anything can work given the right circumstances or medium.

Like a lot of people, I get frustrated with all the reboots in Hollywood of successful movies. I really wish they would take old B-Movies and reboot them to work.

Honestly, I think the original movie is a good idea and works quite well. It's not some huge feat pushing cinema forward or some grand take on the human condition. It's kind of badly acted. It doesn't look great. But I think it achieves everything it set out to do. I think it's genuinely funny in parts. It's creepy in parts.

That said, I'd definitely watch a remake, not of the musical, but a horror movie. Less comedy. Lean into the psychology of this. The bones of a genuinely good, creepy story are here. A Twilight Zone/Alfred Hitchcock Presents feel. You could potentially tweak it to have Stanley be creepier mediocre instead of a loveable loser but that might make the whole thing fall apart.

Does anyone know if the original was a well known movie before the musical? I've always thought it was a largely forgotten b movie revived by the musical and being an early Jack Nicholson movie.

[grudlian. 4725]

By the way, there is a remake of the musical in the works according to imdb. Taren Edgerton is playing Stanley. Scarlett Johansson is playing Audrey. Billy Porter as Audrey 2. Chris Evans as the dentist.

This is a strong cast but, boy, I really don't like the idea of remaking a movie that's basically flawless as is.

[JammerLea 2070]

3 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

By the way, there is a remake of the musical in the works according to imdb. Taren Edgerton is playing Stanley. Scarlett Johansson is playing Audrey. Billy Porter as Audrey 2. Chris Evans as the dentist.

This is a strong cast but, boy, I really don't like the idea of remaking a movie that's basically flawless as is.

Honestly part of why I wanted to revisit this version before it gets sullied by a new remake which will undoubtedly have CG effects instead of these practical effects that still look INCREDIBLY GOOD.

But yeah, my first time seeing this, I was, I think, older teens? It's so well done though, the music and how it's incorporated into the story, the cast, the atmosphere... I don't want to say it's a perfect movie, but hell, it sure comes close. (I haven't yet watched the original director's cut ending, but I did read up on it. I think it would have been interesting, but I understand how test audiences didn't respond well lol)

Levi Stubbs is just... so soooo good in this role. I soooorta remember Mother Brain, but it's been so long...

Uhh, gushing aside, my roommate and I were questioning how Audrey II knew Audrey's phone number to call her lol

[grudlian. 4725]

1 hour ago, JammerLea said:

Honestly part of why I wanted to revisit this version before it gets sullied by a new remake which will undoubtedly have CG effects instead of these practical effects that still look INCREDIBLY GOOD.

But yeah, my first time seeing this, I was, I think, older teens? It's so well done though, the music and how it's incorporated into the story, the cast, the atmosphere... I don't want to say it's a perfect movie, but hell, it sure comes close. (I haven't yet watched the original director's cut ending, but I did read up on it. I think it would have been interesting, but I understand how test audiences didn't respond well lol

I really don't see what a remake is going to accomplish. The effects in this hold up quite well (and that opening shot that looks like space revealing its a puddle is so surprisingly good that it fools me every time). I predict this just not having the heart of the original which is what pushes this along.

I wouldn't say it's perfect either but the only thing I'd change is the dentist. I've always felt the scene with the dentist is unnecessarily long in both versions. I'd say it could be cut completely. Set up that he abuses Audrey and that's all we need instead of a lengthy scene without our leads.

[JammerLea 2070]

4 hours ago, grudlian. said:

I wouldn't say it's perfect either but the only thing I'd change is the dentist. I've always felt the scene with the dentist is unnecessarily long in both versions. I'd say it could be cut completely. Set up that he abuses Audrey and that's all we need instead of a lengthy scene without our leads.

I can't help but think how terrifying this musical must've been to anyone who has had a legit fear of dentists lol I do think it was good to establish just how despicable his character is in setting up a reason of "this asshole deserves it" for being killed. It certainly is uncomfortable and was weird that it was one of the first songs replayed during the credits. Someone must've really liked it. (Also was really bizarre seeing Steve Martin with black hair lol)

So, a question: Who was worse, the sadist or the masochist?

[Cam Bert 8145]

10 hours ago, grudlian. said:

By the way, there is a remake of the musical in the works according to imdb. Taren Edgerton is playing Stanley. Scarlett Johansson is playing Audrey. Billy Porter as Audrey 2. Chris Evans as the dentist.

This is a strong cast but, boy, I really don't like the idea of remaking a movie that's basically flawless as is.

Taren Edgerton is so not right. I just can't see it. Then again I couldn't really see him as Elton John and he wasn't bad. I was just hoping for someone a bit more unconventional. Billy Porter and Evans are good calls.

18 hours ago, grudlian. said:

I definitely knew Mother Brain before Audrey II. The first time I watched this, I definitely was wracking my brain trying to figure out where I knew the voice from.

So, just to confirm, everyone watched the director's cut ending right? Even if you watched the theatrical cut, the directors cut ending is available on youtube and I recommend checking it out.

The first time I saw the "alternate ending" was actually at a theater production. I then learned it was the filmed ending as well. One of the reasons I have multiple copies on DVD is so I could have both. The verdict? I kinda like the happy ending more. As much as I love the plants winning and climbing on the statue of liberty, I just don't feel it as much. It's honoring its b movie roots with this very 50s sci-fi type ending but I feel the song doesn't have to punch to really send you off on a strong note. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

13 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

This is something I think about a lot. Honestly, it's probably why I'm attracted to things like HDTGM, MST3K and Rifftrax in the first place. I love to think that there's no such thing as a bad idea. That anything can work given the right circumstances or medium.

Like a lot of people, I get frustrated with all the reboots in Hollywood of successful movies. I really wish they would take old B-Movies and reboot them to work.

Some of my favourite things I own are a few DVDs/Blu-rays from the 42nd Street Forever collection and Drive In Delirium collection. It is nothing but trailers from grindhouse and drive in movies from the 50s to the 80s. It always lifts my spirits just the sure unbridled creativity of it all. So many great ideas that with a better writer, better technology or slightly more money could be great and prime for a remake yet I have to see a remake of some 80s movie that is still just fine. Take something like The Thing, one of the greatest movies of all time and its a remake but most people don't even know it because the original is an old b movie. It updates and changes the material enough to be it's own thing.

[Cameron H. 23786]

6 hours ago, JammerLea said:

I can't help but think how terrifying this musical must've been to anyone who has had a legit fear of dentists lol I do think it was good to establish just how despicable his character is in setting up a reason of "this asshole deserves it" for being killed. It certainly is uncomfortable and was weird that it was one of the first songs replayed during the credits. Someone must've really liked it. (Also was really bizarre seeing Steve Martin with black hair lol)

So, a question: Who was worse, the sadist or the masochist?

Perhaps Little Shop the exception proving the rule, but I just saw a thing with Steve Martin and he was recounting his bad reviews. The one that stuck with his was something like, “If Steve Martin has died his hair in it, it’s going to be bad.” Lol

[grudlian. 4725]

2 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Taren Edgerton is so not right. I just can't see it. Then again I couldn't really see him as Elton John and he wasn't bad. I was just hoping for someone a bit more unconventional. Billy Porter and Evans are good calls.

The first time I saw the "alternate ending" was actually at a theater production. I then learned it was the filmed ending as well. One of the reasons I have multiple copies on DVD is so I could have both. The verdict? I kinda like the happy ending more. As much as I love the plants winning and climbing on the statue of liberty, I just don't feel it as much. It's honoring its b movie roots with this very 50s sci-fi type ending but I feel the song doesn't have to punch to really send you off on a strong note. 

I think Taren Edgerton could work but probably won't. He was able to play Eddie The Eagle and give a completely different feeling than he normally seems to exude. But I think the meek boyishness isn't him. If you must remake it, Tom Holland seems like a better choice.

I also don't like Scarlett Johansson for Audrey either. Audrey, in the musical, is also meek and shy and innocent and I don't think Scarlett Johansson can do that convincingly. The closest she's done to that is Lost In Translation or Ghost World and that's not at all what Audrey is. Her as Audrey is going to feel like a high budget SNL character.

I think I saw the alternate ending the first time I saw this in full. It was on tv and they played the full movie then showed it immediately after the credits. They made a big deal about the newly discovered alternative ending. I feel like it might have been in black and white. So, I'm not sure if I've ever really known this without the director's ending in some capacity.

I prefer the happier ending as well. I like having the darker ending available because I like it. Maybe if we didn't see Seymour die and cut to the rest of the plants around the world with an implied death?

[Cam Bert 8145]

8 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I think I saw the alternate ending the first time I saw this in full. It was on tv and they played the full movie then showed it immediately after the credits. They made a big deal about the newly discovered alternative ending. I feel like it might have been in black and white. So, I'm not sure if I've ever really known this without the director's ending in some capacity.

I prefer the happier ending as well. I like having the darker ending available because I like it. Maybe if we didn't see Seymour die and cut to the rest of the plants around the world with an implied death?

I agree. Like the second to last song is basically Audrey II torturing Seymour until it eats him and I guess this plays off the sadistic nature of other characters but the payoff is unsatisfying for the audience. If he grew big and we see Seymour crushed in the rumble I think that would be a could place to jump into the finale scene with. I'm not against dark endings or endings where the bad guy wins. From age 15 to 22 I probably only wanted dark downbeat endings. However, there is a difference between the bad guy winning and having salt rubbed in your wounds. I feel The Mist falls into this as well. What the main character does and the outcome of it horrible and crushing enough but then there is a moment that just rubs salt in that wound and sours it all for me. In Little Shop you have Seymour get eaten AND Audrey II takes over the world. One of those things is enough but both does seem like excess.

[grudlian. 4725]

58 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I agree. Like the second to last song is basically Audrey II torturing Seymour until it eats him and I guess this plays off the sadistic nature of other characters but the payoff is unsatisfying for the audience. If he grew big and we see Seymour crushed in the rumble I think that would be a could place to jump into the finale scene with. I'm not against dark endings or endings where the bad guy wins. From age 15 to 22 I probably only wanted dark downbeat endings. However, there is a difference between the bad guy winning and having salt rubbed in your wounds. I feel The Mist falls into this as well. What the main character does and the outcome of it horrible and crushing enough but then there is a moment that just rubs salt in that wound and sours it all for me. In Little Shop you have Seymour get eaten AND Audrey II takes over the world. One of those things is enough but both does seem like excess.

Yeah. I'm not against dark endings at all. I can't even say the movie isn't moving toward an ending of plant domination from the beginning but I think it's also going toward Seymour and Audrey together. I'm certainly more invested in their story over Audrey 2.

[GrahamS. 803]

6 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

Taren Edgerton is so not right. I just can't see it. Then again I couldn't really see him as Elton John and he wasn't bad. I was just hoping for someone a bit more unconventional. Billy Porter and Evans are good calls.

The first time I saw the "alternate ending" was actually at a theater production. I then learned it was the filmed ending as well. One of the reasons I have multiple copies on DVD is so I could have both. The verdict? I kinda like the happy ending more. As much as I love the plants winning and climbing on the statue of liberty, I just don't feel it as much. It's honoring its b movie roots with this very 50s sci-fi type ending but I feel the song doesn't have to punch to really send you off on a strong note. 

I watched the director’s cut on HBO and loved it. Honestly, I think it works so much better. Not only does it capture the play’s ending, but it has AMAZING puppetry. Truly, Frank Oz’s masterwork (although I enjoy Bowfinger as well, but no singing plants in that one).

i get that it’s a bleak ending that goes against typical musical tropes, but that’s what makes it work so well. I’ve seen the play performed two years ago (and it was excellent—it’s amazing what they can do with puppetry onstage. Also, the singer for Audrey II definitely had a Levi Stubbs-type vibe and did it really well). It was the first time I’d seen the original ending and it was shocking (although I’d heard how it ended before and knew that Oz hated the studio version). 

I’ve known several people throughout the years that have found the “happy” ending fun but... also feeling that it was a LITTLE unintentionally racist (these have all been white people who have expressed this opinion to me, by the way). I go back and forth on this, but it is true that it’s slightly cringey that the principal Black character is a) the villain and b)killed by a white man who is not exactly innocent.  Although the leads are  SUPER charming, that doesn’t change the fact that Seymour is guilty of manslaughter, twice. It feels a little weird that the white dude can go happily off to suburbia. It’s as well-done as a test-mandated happy ending can be, but it does feel a little off.

but maybe I just feel the human race deserves to be destroyed by blood-hungry plants!

Also, I think Grudian didn’t like the dentist stuff. Disagree 1,000,000%. I love the movie but Steve Martin has my favorite musical number and this is one of my favorite performances of his, because it’s so different. The Bill Murray scene is great. For me, in a movie filled with highly entertaining shit, it very nearly ran away with it.

By the way, I saw this in movie theaters. Like 3 times. When I was 12!

 

 

[GrahamS. 803]

7 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

I agree. Like the second to last song is basically Audrey II torturing Seymour until it eats him and I guess this plays off the sadistic nature of other characters but the payoff is unsatisfying for the audience. If he grew big and we see Seymour crushed in the rumble I think that would be a could place to jump into the finale scene with. I'm not against dark endings or endings where the bad guy wins. From age 15 to 22 I probably only wanted dark downbeat endings. However, there is a difference between the bad guy winning and having salt rubbed in your wounds. I feel The Mist falls into this as well. What the main character does and the outcome of it horrible and crushing enough but then there is a moment that just rubs salt in that wound and sours it all for me. In Little Shop you have Seymour get eaten AND Audrey II takes over the world. One of those things is enough but both does seem like excess.

I will agree that the ending—in both the play and the movie—would have been better if it had been a mix: Audrey gets tragically eaten, Seymour escapes but it doesn’t matter because then you establish that the earth is fucked. That’s what shocked me when I saw the play—I figured Audrey was gonna die but was blown away when Seymour gets killed, too. It is an insanely downbeat ending but the play is VERY faithful to the plot of the original movie.

I’ve seen this so many times I can recite dialogue, but still the scene where Audrey squeaks when Seymour tells her he named the plant Audrey Ii made me laugh nonstop for the better part of a minute. It’s too bad Ellen Greene didn’t appear in more comedies—she fucking nails it!

 

[grudlian. 4725]

5 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

Also, I think Grudian didn’t like the dentist stuff. Disagree 1,000,000%. I love the movie but Steve Martin has my favorite musical number and this is one of my favorite performances of his, because it’s so different. The Bill Murray scene is great. For me, in a movie filled with highly entertaining shit, it very nearly ran away with it.

I think the scene is entertaining and, for two modern comedic icons of the same era, I think this is their only time together other than some SNL skits.

But Bill Murray doesn't relate to any main characters. He barely talks to Seymour. We don't learn anything valuable from him. For all it does for the story or characters, you might as well cut in one of his monologues from Caddyshack. If you want something that really reinforces the villainy of the dentist (which this scene does), I think more dialogue with Audrey explaining how little she enjoys BDSM would be way more effective. 

If you cut it from the movie and showed it to someone for the first time, no one would ask for more of the dentist. I also think the humor is a bit different from everything else we see. It's not that it isn't funny; it's that it's unrelated to the rest of the movie. But I realize this is a controversial take on this section of the movie.