Episode 109 - FACE OFF: LIVE!

[Maskellrascal 1]

Omission:

 

I feel that they missed a great opportunity with Joan Allen's character. They could have ended the movie with her pregnant, but is it Castor Troy's or Sean Archer's baby?

[Chasequarius 24]

Hey Paul! This is my first time commenting on the message boards. I'm a huge fan, and I look forward to hearing you guys discuss movies a few times a month!

 

Just wanted to mention another of the many things in "Face/Off" that I found strange. It's been a couple weeks since I saw the film, but I remember pre-surgery Sean Archer saying that he wanted the face swap surgeons to not remove the scar that he got from the bullet that killed his son, because it was a physical reminder of his need to avenge his son's murder.

 

After the scene where Travolta-cage appears before Joan Allen later in the film to convince her that he is actually her real husband, I'm wondering--instead of going through the rigamarole of comparing blood types, why didn't she just look for that scar on his chest? Since both Cagevolta and Travolta-cage kept their same bodies, basically, it would follow that Travolta-cage would still possess the gunshot scar in the scene with Joan Allen. She could have just checked for that unique scar that only Sean Archer possesses, concluded "Oh, maybe this IS my husband," and busted her fake husband Castor Troy. The film seemed to be pointing to that ending from the first moment Archer mentioned his scar. Hasn't John Woo ever heard of Chekhov's Gun?

[Kickpuncher 5012]

He did get the scar removed; what he told the doctor originally was that he wanted to have it put back after the whole thing was over.

[RUSTONLF 1]

Omission:

 

No one mentioned that it took a team of people to change Sean Archer into Castor Troy (including someone to cut his hair!) so that the body would match. When Castor decides he wants Sean Archers face on his body did his team of thugs go and wake up that team in the middle of the night to make changes to his body and what did they do to that team? Also remember that would include someone who could fatten up Castor (because we were told Archer had to have his "love handles removed").

[RUSTONLF 1]

I noticed that too but she directly says the bald guy is her brother and then Sean Archer calls her his sister and he wouldn't have done that if they weren't actually related. Sean Archer don't give a shit about being so close you are practically siblings.

 

They also both have the same last name in the credits. They are definitely brother and sister. This movie has a questionable stance on incest though since they believe a daughter who is eye raped by her dad would think nothing of it and not be uncomfortable.

[paterade 2]

You guys. Apparently, the face waterfall is equal to the face rake, where you can watch firsthand here:

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

Not really a Correction or Omission, but I guess an observation...

 

I was just wondering, in movies where a character is sent to prison, especially one that flouts Habeas Corpus, when the head prison guard gives the inevitable "your ass is mine" speech, are we supposed to believe this speech is straight off the dome or that it is the approved speech as specified in their Standard Operating Procedures?

[LocusOfMe 0]

I think we missed an essential pairing: Kelly Clarkson and Clark Kellison!

[jarrycanada 2483]

I think we missed an essential pairing: Kelly Clarkson and Clark Kellison!

 

You could call that one Chick/Off. we forgot about the ladys guys.

 

i got the ultimate face off pair... and the scary part is this could really happen.

 

SANDER / SCHNEIDER

 

it was funny two mins ago.

[CommentsFromMyPocket 53]

I would love to see a remake of this, reuniting the greatest on screen duo in cinematic history:

 

Hulk Hogan and "Tiny" Lister.

[katie_j 4]

Ok, so I have a question. Why did Troy (as Archer) kill the bald guy (Nick Cassavetes)? I mean it looked like he was intentionally trying to kill Gina Gershon and Adam but her brother jumped in the way at the last second. Why did he want them to die???

[cornbredx 3]

I remember seeing this movie when it first came out, and I liked it, but for years I didn't think it was that great. I think it has aged really well, though, and I actually think I may like it better now. It's awesome in that cheesy action movie way- the way an action movie should be cheesy. I don't know- maybe Michael Bay could learn something from this film.

 

Anyway, despite really liking it (I tend to like bad movies, but I don't ignore the fact that it's bad) I saw some things here that I was surprised they never touched on during the show.

 

Am I the only one who saw that Thomas Jane is in this movie? With awesome hair! Come on, how could they not even mention that if only because his hair is AMAZING!

 

Obvious stunt doubles- did anyone else notice how obvious the stunt doubles are in this movie? Especially when they're thrown from the boat because the slow shot takes like 30 seconds, and it's clearly not Nick Cage or John Travolta flying away from the boat. It's just super noticeable in this movie- particularly in that scene.

 

I saw this movie in theaters when it came out. In the "Somewhere over the rainbow" scene- You know, I think this may be the first movie I ever saw that had a kids song playing over something horrible happening. That's a trope now, but I wanna say this was the first time I saw that.

 

When Nick Cage as Archer gets introduced to Castor's son he goes bad acting version of PTSD saying another kids name and hugging him and the only thing Tasha (Gina Gershon) says is "you're scaring him." It's as if that wasn't super bizarre- even for Castor Troy I'd think that'd come off really weird.

 

Why does Castor Archer (bad guy Travolta) cut up his face when, basically, plastic surgery is how the faces are switched? What difference does that make?

 

They did kind of touch on this, but this is supposed to be some super new exciting technology that they can switch faces, and it seems like the people that were killed were the only ones who can perform this surgery because it's so new and whatever, but then they suddenly are able to get another team of doctors that can totally figure out how to do that. Ya, Archer, you're gonna be fine, you know how you thought for good reason that you'd never get your face back? Don't worry about it there are actually other people that know how to do this surgery too... apparently.

 

Why does Castor Archer (bad guy Travolta) seem to protect Archers daughter from an idiot trying to rape her in her own driveway one minute and sexually assault her the next? He clearly seems to despise the concept of rape in that one scene, but yet in other scenes he's all about it. I can't wrap my head around what that says about the character.

 

This movie is great. Despite it's flaws. Broken Arrow... not so much.

[jarrycanada 2483]

[Bugs Meany 69]

Why does Castor Archer (bad guy Travolta) seem to protect Archers daughter from an idiot trying to rape her in her own driveway one minute and sexually assault her the next? He clearly seems to despise the concept of rape in that one scene, but yet in other scenes he's all about it. I can't wrap my head around what that says about the character.

Let's not water down the word rape like that. He's creepy and flirty with the daughter, but he doesn't actually try anything. Even if he's the most evil guy in the world, he's not going to blow his cover by crossing that line.

[OoofMaGOOF 348]

This episode, in the word of Zouks, fuckkkkkkkking KILLED IT.

 

I may have made a Wikipedia edit with June's insight...

 

[grog1138 60]

It's Tuesday

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

It's Tuesday

 

 

...No, but check back Friday and they might be able to hook you up...

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

It may have been mentioned here already, but they don't really play with the fact that even though they're technically still in their own bodies, they're physically different or differently proportioned, right? I mean, Travolta's noticeably a little bigger, a little broader, so you don't think that Troy would be as agile or as fast as he's used to being.

 

This reminds me of a "Freaky Friday"-like issue of "Ultimate Spider-Man" where Jean Grey, upset at Wolverine for some reason or another, had him mentally switch bodies with the person he disliked the most, which happened to be Spidey. Hilarity ensues when Spidey repeatedly almost stabs himself to death while having the agility of a small tank, while Wolverine has a hard time NOT being invincible...and macking on MJ.

[GiveMeYourBaby 102]

More like Fresh Off the Face.

 

Alternately: Face/Off the Boat.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

Oh, and if this is really a love story between Travolta and Cage, that's a pretty fucked-up meet-cute at the beginning there.

[GiveMeYourBaby 102]

How did they not talk about this?

 

http://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/11113/111131285/4290416-2145802211-tumbl.gif

[DeathToMikeyBay 130]

Alternate pairing:

 

Tom Selleck, Burt Reynolds

[Cameron H. 23786]

Oh, and if this is really a love story between Travolta and Cage, that's a pretty fucked-up meet-cute at the beginning there.

 

Okay, this may sound crazy, but I am starting to believe Cage's assertion more and more of of this being a love story between Troy and Archer. Fair warning, this may be a long-ish post as I ramble on, talk out of my ass, and try to suss this out. (So...y'know, your typical Cameron H. post)

 

What I have come to believe is that Castor is, at best, asexual and that his true "love/lust" is for Power, and Archer is the physical embodiment of the Power he desires. In other words, he is attracted to the idea of a man of such magnitude he can make a another man shit himself during an interrogation. We don't get a lot of the characters' history together, but I get the vibe it is a real Tom & Jerry situation that started long before the movie started and has continued unabated over the intervening six years. He loves Travolta in the sense that this is the only man he feels challenged by and is therefore worthy of his consideration.

 

As far as sex is concerned, honestly, he doesn't actually seem to be all that interested in it. Prior to their Trans-Face-Fusion, anytime a sexual situation arises in the film it is always less about the actual act and more about the Power. For example, he's not attracted to the choir girl herself, he is attracted to being dressed as a priest and groping a choir girl. Or, for another example, making a stranger "suck his tongue." Why a tongue? Honestly, because it's a pretty gross act that not many people would find enjoyable (either receiving or giving), but an act he is somehow able to command of just random people.

 

Once he becomes Archer, yes he acts creepy toward Travolta's daughter, but he never actually acts upon it. The only time he actually touches her is at the end when he licks her face, not out of sexual desire, but to get into Archer's head. He has sex with Archer's wife, but again, this is less about sex and more about getting at Archer. Archer is the phantasm that haunts Troy and keeps him awake at night.

 

In the end, he doesn't want to have sex with the daughter or wife. What he wants, in his twisted way, is to be Archer--the man he loves--only better! He wants to be a better father (he protects and arms his daughter), husband (he lavishes his wife with the attention that she has been lacking), and cop. Keep in mind, as "Archer" he never actually commits a crime, at least not the terrorist type crimes he was committing before. In fact, he actually uses his new found power and position to dismantle his own operations! He accomplishes more in six days then Archer does in six years. Or, in his own words, "What about when I become an American hero for defusing the bomb? What's that worth?"

 

So, yes, I think that an argument can be made for Troy's love of Archer.

 

Now, I must slink off into a dark, lonely corner and consider the life choices I've made that led me to a place where I would put this much thought and effort into such a shitty, shitty movie...

[Bugs Meany 69]

In the end, he doesn't want to have sex with the daughter or wife. What he wants, in his twisted way, is to be Archer--the man he loves--only better! He wants to be a better father (he protects and arms his daughter)

That's a great point. Maybe he stopped the rape just because he loves kicking ass, but then why teach her Knifeplay 101? There's nothing in it for Castor Troy to show Sean Archer's daughter how to defend herself. (She ultimately uses the knife against him!) Having killed one Archer child, he does what he can to protect the other.

[Juggermax 75]