Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice (2016)

[Cameron H. 23786]

Gah okay I listened to Comedy Film Nerds review and I have to say there are more flaws than I even had remembered.

 

I'm so on the fence about this movie. I had fun watching it but wow they really did get some shit wrong.

 

Whatever, y'all. I officially have stopped caring about this movie lol.

 

No, it's good that you enjoyed it. That means the movie did it's job. Don't let anyone dissuade you from that opinion. There's a very good chance I may even enjoy when I do see it, although I suspect it will be in a more HDTGM kind of way. Please don't feel like you're being attacked. That's not my intention.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

No, it's good that you enjoyed it. That means the movie did it's job. Don't let anyone dissuade you from that opinion. There's a very good chance I may even enjoy when I do see it, although I suspect it will be in a more HDTGM kind of way. Please don't feel like you're being attacked. That's not my intention.

Oh no no! I didn't feel like that at all! Quite the opposite actually! I felt like we were all able to come in and have a nice genuine discussion about feelings about this movie without getting angry or mean about it, which is awesome!

 

It was after listening to Chris, Graham, and their guests talk about the movie that I was like, "Oh shit yeah that was dumb. Shit yeah that was weird too. Fuckin' a yeah wtf was Snyder thinking there." I've been limiting the number of reviews that I see and/or hear because I don't want to be dissuaded from my opinion, but since I'm so on the fence about it as a whole it seems much easier for me to just give up and say fuck it lol.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Edit: Once you see it I would actually love to talk about the flaws of it because I'm trying to keep it spoiler free, but there are some things that I'm really trying to wrap my brain around despite the fun I had lol.

 

I just saw this edit.

 

Please don't feel the need to hold back on my account. Maybe just wrap them in "spoiler" tags for the time being. Aside from dialog, I literally know the plot of the entire movie at this point--all the surprises and what have you. Plus it's going to be a while before I actually have a chance to see it. I thought I might go see it when I go on vacation in a couple of weeks, but I probably won't. Get it out of your system now while it's still fresh.

 

I know I've asked you this before as a hypothetical, but are you going to see it again? I would be interested to hear your take on it now that you've had more time to process it. I wonder if it gets better or worse with repeat viewing...

 

Also, how was The Flash in it? I know he's only it in it for like a very weird second

(Batman has psychic premonitions now? He wakes up twice?!?)

, but I was just curious. I sort of like the show (i.e. I've seen the first season, but I have no problem waiting for the the second) and I was one of the ones who was like, "Why not just have the TV version of The Flash? His whole backstory is already laid out." I see why tonally it wouldn't work, but maybe he would have injected some levity to the proceedings...

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

I just saw this edit.

 

Please don't feel the need to hold back on my account. Maybe just wrap them in "spoiler" tags for the time being. Aside from dialog, I literally know the plot of the entire movie at this point--all the surprises and what have you. Plus it's going to be a while before I actually have a chance to see it. I thought I might go see it when I go on vacation in a couple of weeks, but I probably won't. Get it out of your system now while it's still fresh.

 

I know I've asked you this before as a hypothetical, but are you going to see it again? I would be interested to hear your take on it now that you've had more time to process it. I wonder if it gets better or worse with repeat viewing...

 

Also, how was The Flash in it? I know he's only it in it for like a very weird second

(Batman has psychic premonitions now? He wakes up twice?!?)

, but I was just curious. I sort of like the show (i.e. I've seen the first season, but I have no problem waiting for the the second) and I was one of the ones who was like, "Why not just have the TV version of The Flash? His whole backstory is already laid out." I see why tonally it wouldn't work, but maybe he would have injected some levity to the proceedings...

Honestly I was holding back because I want to hear your thoughts specifically and you haven't seen it so there's really no point in asking about certain aspects of it.

 

At this point I don't think I would in theaters but I definitely want to see it again. Maybe I can wait till it hits the dollar theater and see it then again lol.

 

Regarding the Flash I've literally only seen him in crossovers with Arrow and I've just started watching his own show (I'm still on the pilot episode) so I can't say too much about how Ezra is compared to Grant.

Mostly because of that and mostly because Ezra is literally only in it for 5 seconds. I think Snyder is just being an ass with his whole "Grant Gustin just wouldn't work!" because you can make someone work quite easily. Plus Arrow's tone is dark and Grant doesn't stand out at all when he cameos on that show. Luckily I caught on to that thing but I know a lot of people were very confused by that whole segment cause you don't even clearly see that it's The Flash. I thought it was another dream, but maybe it wasn't? Idk I've had a dream within a dream once before and it was trippy as fuck so it doesn't surprise me that Batman would have one or two as well, but considering he's never met the Flash it does seem odd that he would dream about him.

 

 

*shrugs* This is probably useless information for you lol.

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

I also have to admit, I have not seen the movie. I even think that the Batman stuff could work, if they had done a solo Batman movie first that adapted (not just implied) The Killing Joke and Death in the Family. Then you could maybe understand why he was pushed to such extremes. I think the DCU was trying so desperately to catch up with Marvel, that they neglected to lay that ground work.

 

As for Superman (again, not a huge fan by any stretch), but I don't see how a scowling face works for that character. He's supposed to be better than us (a "Superman" as it were). He should reflect what we want to be, not (cynically) how we may actually be. I think that's why Superman and Batman have worked well together in the past. They're perfect foils in the same way the Joker is an effective Batman villain (control vs. chaos; careful deliberation vs. insanity). By that definition, Batman should be the cynical, pragmatist and Superman should be the hopeful, optimist.

 

To your second point, I think it all comes down to marketing. Which isn't to say the trailers for BvS made it seem kid friendly, but by having Superman in it, I think there should be some wholesomeness to it, not just angst ridden navel gazing.

 

In regard to Winter Soldier, my son has seen it, and God knows Cap kills a lot of people, but it's not like he's branding people with an American flag. It's all pretty bloodless, like an Indiana Jones movie. It takes itself seriously enough that you're engaged with the movie, but not so seriously that you ever forget that it's a comic book movie.

 

That's my two cents anyway. I will see BvS eventually and maybe I'll recant everything I've written, but this is my immediate reaction to it.

 

P.S. To circle back to a conversation we had almost a year ago, and so people don't think that I'm some kind of raging Marvel fanboy, I tried to re-watch Age of Ultron again a couple of mornings ago. As you know, my opinion of that wasn't too high, but I figured it's been a year since I watched it, and I'd give it another go. I watched for a little under 9 minutes, right up to the moment when Black Widow says to Hulk something like, "Hey, big guy. The sun's getting mighty low" when I rolled my eyes and turned that shit off.

 

Great Post Cameron! I wanted to chime in and add a few things...

 

I haven't seen the movie either... I wanted to go opening night but the Rotten Tomatoes critic score made me change my mind, and because also I have heard that there is a 3 hour R-Rated version of "BvS" coming out this July I pretty much made up my mind and will wait for that one...

 

I think that the whole "Batman kills" thing in "BvS" could also be a direct consequence of Superman snapping a neck at the end of "MoS". So in this Zack Snyder/DC movie Universe both Batman and Superman have been driven to the point of committing murder when they see fit instead of only when they have no other choice. Killing was the exception and now seems to be the rule.

 

Coincidentally last night I saw "The Avengers: AoU" It was my 3rd time watching it ( The first 2 where at a movie theatre ) I must say I liked "AoU" better this time around. The movie is dense and somewhat darker than previous Marvel movies ( Maybe thats why it was just ok for a lot of people ). For me "AoU" didn't reach the supreme quality that the original "Avengers" and "Winter Soldier" have, and although Ultron does wreak havoc he gets the short end of the stick on the movie and the "Age of Ultron" lasts roughly a week

 

Finally heres a rant review of "BvS" I enjoyed... Its from the same guy that did the "Pixels" one He says that this happened because of "Balance"

 

Warning FULL Spoilers and heavy NSFW language

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OTKDtoBR-2M

 

Thank you for reading! Bye!

[Cameron H. 23786]

Honestly I was holding back because I want to hear your thoughts specifically and you haven't seen it so there's really no point in asking about certain aspects of it.

 

At this point I don't think I would in theaters but I definitely want to see it again. Maybe I can wait till it hits the dollar theater and see it then again lol.

 

Regarding the Flash I've literally only seen him in crossovers with Arrow and I've just started watching his own show (I'm still on the pilot episode) so I can't say too much about how Ezra is compared to Grant.

Mostly because of that and mostly because Ezra is literally only in it for 5 seconds. I think Snyder is just being an ass with his whole "Grant Gustin just wouldn't work!" because you can make someone work quite easily. Plus Arrow's tone is dark and Grant doesn't stand out at all when he cameos on that show. Luckily I caught on to that thing but I know a lot of people were very confused by that whole segment cause you don't even clearly see that it's The Flash. I thought it was another dream, but maybe it wasn't? Idk I've had a dream within a dream once before and it was trippy as fuck so it doesn't surprise me that Batman would have one or two as well, but considering he's never met the Flash it does seem odd that he would dream about him.

 

 

*shrugs* This is probably useless information for you lol.

 

Maybe I'll go...for you. And I'll buy a ticket for My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2 so they don't get my money. lol

 

 

Not really a spoiler, but speaking of weird dreams...I had a dream the other day that Lin-Manuel Miranda and I were best friends and went to go see a movie together. If that gives you any indication as to where my head's been at lately.

 

 

[ElieB 238]

I could destroy this movie if I had the time. There are a handful of great moments at best.

 

My absolute favorite failure in this movie is how it never, through 2 and half hours, it NEVER has 3 or more people involved in any given conversation. I mean, there are moments with 3 or more people in proximity but there are zero complex dialogues. The entire film is a confusing series of 2 characters facing off with statements, accusations and bad face-acting. How is that even possible? How could any studio execs see this and think it's acceptable? How can anybody enjoy over 2 hours of one on one bitching?

 

The thing about making a choice to go dark is absolutely fine, if you pull it off. But this film is a disaster of story telling. Most of it is boring which is the cardinal sin of blockbuster movies. Besides boring, the plot just rambles on and hits so many deadends as to become confusing. It`s 5 different movies in one and four of them are boring. Things that Snyder simply doesn`t understand: plot structure, character, motivation, scene transition, DC lore, what heroes are, what kids like, what general audiences can enjoy... etc.

 

Everything to do with framing superman, reigning in superman, mysterious bullets, covering football games, Batman`s parents, congress, and dead parents is fucking pointless. At no point does Superman actually do anything to demonstrate who he is, what he wants to be or why he's doing anything.

 

Yeah, I enjoyed seeing it. It's batman and superman for gods sake, it could have been directed neal breen and still been fascinating. More than anything I've enjoyed dissecting just how badly WB and Snyder fucked it up. In the same way it was so fun to dissect fantastic four.

 

 

Edit: Regarding source material. I don't know. I didn't read much DC so I couldn't care less about batman killing people and character choices. But one choice that did bother me because I actually watch the flash TV series: Ezra Miller as Barry Allen makes little sense at all. In the teaser they give us he looks like a dirty loser emo teen that hasn't learned to shave... and he already has his powers... what?? At the very least he should be a respectable forensics/CSI officer who GAINS powers somehow, no?? So they're just making up origin stories. Cool. But why did we have to see Batman's god damn parents get killed again. UGHH. I'm pretty sure they're going to try and make The Flash their spiderman, young smart mouthed exuberant teenager.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I think that the whole "Batman kills" thing in "BvS" could also be a direct consequence of Superman snapping a neck at the end of "MoS". So in this Zack Snyder/DC movie Universe both Batman and Superman have been driven to the point of committing murder when they see fit instead of only when they have no other choice. Killing was the exception and now seems to be the rule.

 

That might be it. I think the problem is, no one wants to write a Superman movie. By that, I mean, he's kind of a boring character--he's a boy scout, he's invulnerable, and has every power in the world. This is one of the main reasons I've never really taken to the character. Where do you go? Where's the drama?

 

So Warner Brothers was sitting on this IP for a very popular character, they handed it to Zach Snyder and said, "Make this interesting." Unfortunately, in my opinion, Snyder went the wrong way. He made the decision to make Superman's obstacles internal, with external consequences "Why should I do this? Do I want to do this? What about me? I saved millions, does it really matter that thousands died?" If I were writing the character, I would have kept the whole boy scout image (the one that they seem so keen on avoiding) and made his obstacles external, with internal consequences. "I have all this power, but I can't be everywhere at once. One innocent person died and it's hard for me to live with that. I have to be better. When the world is chaos and everyone is in peril, how do I choose who to save and who to let die?"

 

This observation reminds me of a comic book idea that I always thought would be cool, but never really got around to doing anything with. (Sorry, there's a little bit of set up, before I come to the point.) It came about when I was watching X-Men 2, and there's a scene at the beginning where all the students are at a museum, and one of the kids sticks his tongue out at another kid--and it's forked. That's it. I remember thinking at the time, "Wow, that kid really drew the short straw when it comes to powers..." So from that, I came up with the idea for The Ex-Men (I know, I know. Lame title. I'm sorry). Basically, it would be set in the Marvel Universe and be about a group of mediocre-powered teens. If I remember correctly, there was a girl called PJ that secreted pheromones that would put you to sleep if she started to sweat (not great for anyone in a fight); a big guy called Sloth, who was kind of like the Blob, but he couldn't fight, and was only indestructible if he didn't move; Haze could create a smokescreen, but only if she was smoking a cigarette; and there was a girl who could glow in the dark (I don't remember her name). Anyway, they were going to be led by this kid named Oculus, and basically, his power was just good eyesight. That was it. Just that he could see, like, really, really well. He was going to be the leader, was kind of a boy scout, and wanted to use their powers to fight crime. They would drive around in his beat up Camry.

 

The part that's relevant to my post is, I always envisioned it like the book would start out really small scale (I think there was a guy who could secret acid from the pimples on his face or something), but would gradually increase, and eventually, they would end up in a situation waaaaaaaaaaaaaay out of their league. They were going to end up going up against some demon--whose name also escapes me; it was cool, though. For the finale, I wanted them to be fighting against this demon on a small island in a river. For one reason or another, Oculus isn't with his team when the fighting begins. Since there is no other way to the island, in order to help his friends, he has to swim across this river, and as he does so, with his perfect vision, he just sees his teammates getting slaughtered...and there's nothing he can do about it.

 

I know no one is really interested in something I didn't even end up writing, but I think it applies to the Superman discussion insofar as I think that is what should be the tragedy of being Superman. That idea is what makes him compelling--seeing the pain, hearing the screams, and not being able to do anything about it. Otherwise, leave his personality alone.

 

Thank you all for indulging me! It was fun to write that all out! I haven't thought of that in years!

[RyanSz 3140]

I just want to know if I should see BvS or My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2.

See BvS because you will at least hear the screen. When I was going into the movie there was a crowd of about 20 people wearing Greek flag shirts and waving flags, or wearing homemade bedazzled shirts with sayings from Greek Wedding and were loud as all hell. They were basically using the movie as their own personal Greek Pride parade/family reunion and I don't envy anyone who went into the movie hoping to have a quiet-ish viewing of the film.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

Maybe I'll go...for you. And I'll buy a ticket for My Big Fat Greek Wedding 2 so they don't get my money. lol

 

 

Not really a spoiler, but speaking of weird dreams...I had a dream the other day that Lin-Manuel Miranda and I were best friends and went to go see a movie together. If that gives you any indication as to where my head's been at lately.

 

 

Or give it to a super unknown indie (like Lolo, or Trapped, or Standing Tall which are all directed by women ) if they air at the same theaters!

 

Ugh I want to be best friends with Lin! Why are your dreams so much better than mine!?

[Lando 2019]

Having watched neither BvS or Hamilton I feel so unqualified even clicking on this thread.

[ElieB 238]

So I went back for a tuesday viewing. Got there late cause I got shit to do and I know how bad it is, didn't want to sit through the ENTIRE thing. But I had some great June theories about Lex the second time around. About how he's playing a big game of chess against superman. But im not here to talk about that.

 

I'm here to ask if anyone else saw Lex's cake at that big party scene. Bruce Wayne gets caught by Lex's "queen" when he goes to plant the data thieving device in his conveniently located server room. When Alfred tells him to go back upstairs and mingle we get a glimpse of this absurd iconography just thrown in there because snyder thinks he's a genius. As Bruce is walking away from the stairs back to the party, a pair of servants are carting an enormous replica of the Parthenon into(or out of?) the kitchen. It looks like this, but bigger and I think its a cake.

 

 

As if he's referencing either Wonder Woman(I guess she's athena now?) who we meet at this party. Or he's referencing all the "gods" that he's going to kill to prove they aren't better or smarter than him. Cause he's a giant sociopathic dumb dumb with a love of books.

[RachelWhitePennell 0]

I saw this movie last night at the dollar theater. Holy hell what a hot mess. This NEEDS to be done. I won't go into great detail but a few things I noticed were:

1. The audience gets to sit through ANOTHER reenactment of Bruce Wayne's parents being killed. Every. Single. Movie. We KNOW!!!!

2. Alfred isn't old enough! He only looks to be about 10-15 years older than Bruce Wayne! Alfred should be an old man. Really, really old.

4. The action was ridiculous. There wasn't a second there wasn't an epic battle. Sometimes I need to come down from the action and rest a minute. .I can't do 2.5 hours of straight action scenes.

5. I thought the actors were all fine. I like Affleck as Batman, Amy Adams were both good. Cavill is ok though he was so mopey through the whole thing it was a little annoying but that's not his fault it was written that way.

It seemed like there was a lot left on the cutting room floor that would explain things. Some scenes just didn't make much sense.

 

There's SO much more. I really hope HDTGM consider this movie because it's a doozy.

[ElieB 238]

I'm here to ask if anyone else saw Lex's cake at that big party scene. Bruce Wayne gets caught by Lex's "queen" when he goes to plant the data thieving device in his conveniently located server room. When Alfred tells him to go back upstairs and mingle we get a glimpse of this absurd iconography just thrown in there because snyder thinks he's a genius. As Bruce is walking away from the stairs back to the party, a pair of servants are carting an enormous replica of the Parthenon into(or out of?) the kitchen. It looks like this, but bigger and I think its a cake.

 

As if he's referencing either Wonder Woman(I guess she's athena now?) who we meet at this party. Or he's referencing all the "gods" that he's going to kill to prove they aren't better or smarter than him. Cause he's a giant sociopathic dumb dumb with a love of books.

 

Here's that big dumb greek Parthenon cake at Lex's party.

 

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

the so called unlimited edition is out .. an extra 30 mins ... supposed to make it less bad ... not good .. just less bad

[ElieB 238]

Yeah, I've been semi-watching it while doing some other work so not fully paying attention. 1h15 in and very little different. Few extra 30sec bits here and there but nothing game changing.

[Ofcoursemyhorse 1043]

Watched the 3 hour version yesterday. Jesse Eisenberg should be banished from Hollywood for the performance he turned in, and Zach Snyder can go with him allowing it.

 

The dream sequence is easily one of the most jarring scenes I've seen in a movie in quite some time in terms of how little it connected with both the movie and any semblance of making sense.

 

The whole Martha/Martha bullshit was fucking crazy. And then the next fucking scene Batman tells Diana Lane he''s Superman's friend, I just about lost my mind.

 

It's like dude you just spent the last two hours telling me how much Superman needs to die, to the point of designing special weaponry meant to specifically kill just him. The last thing you could be called is his fucking friend.

 

Wonder Woman was easily the best part of the movie. Gal Gadot fucking crushed it in this movie. I really hope her solo film is handed off to a more competent team.

[NathanGordon 1096]

Watched the 3 hour version yesterday. Jesse Eisenberg should be banished from Hollywood for the performance he turned in, and Zach Snyder can go with him allowing it.

 

The dream sequence is easily one of the most jarring scenes I've seen in a movie in quite some time in terms of how little it connected with both the movie and any semblance of making sense.

Jesse Eisenberg is fine; we know he can act in other movies. He didn't write or direct himself in this mess. It's entirely Zach Snyder and his producers.

 

That dream sequence made no sense to me as a person with only casual DC comic knowledge (basically just their movies). Not just because Bruce wakes up from the same dream three times(!!), but because the events didn't seem to connect with the rest of the story.

 

Who was the guy who suddenly showed up and said he was too early? I've heard it was the Flash, but it didn't look like the tv show Flash. The computer files with the other JL heroes felt hilariously shoehorned in there, almost like you were watching DVD bonus features.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

Watched the 3 hour version yesterday. Jesse Eisenberg should be banished from Hollywood for the performance he turned in, and Zach Snyder can go with him allowing it.

 

The dream sequence is easily one of the most jarring scenes I've seen in a movie in quite some time in terms of how little it connected with both the movie and any semblance of making sense.

 

The whole Martha/Martha bullshit was fucking crazy. And then the next fucking scene Batman tells Diana Lane he''s Superman's friend, I just about lost my mind.

 

It's like dude you just spent the last two hours telling me how much Superman needs to die, to the point of designing special weaponry meant to specifically kill just him. The last thing you could be called is his fucking friend.

 

Wonder Woman was easily the best part of the movie. Gal Gadot fucking crushed it in this movie. I really hope her solo film is handed off to a more competent team.

If these were the days before digital, I would have sworn that there was a reel missing or out of order when that dream sequence happened. It's a "What the fuck?" moment in the worst possible way, because it just simply DOES NOT belong.

[ElieB 238]

If these were the days before digital, I would have sworn that there was a reel missing or out of order when that dream sequence happened. It's a "What the fuck?" moment in the worst possible way, because it just simply DOES NOT belong.

 

When I first saw this in the theater, there were countless audible "WTFs" and "What is happening!?s" all muddling together. It was kind of hilarious. (I was one of them.)

 

It also doesn't help that it's the first real action scene in the movie and it happens like an hour into the film, terrrrrible screenplay... Also the fight choreography was for SHIT in that scene. Baddie extras were literally walking up to their marks seconds before taking the blows. Just awful, but I chalk it up to being a dream sequence, you know how dreams are just funny that way?

 

That whole sequence would have made so much more sense in retrospect *Spoilers* IF Lois had died in the final climax. That way it would set up the dream sequence as an actual vision of the future. The way the film actually ends gives us absolutely zero reason to believe Superman will turn on the JL.