Episode 166 - Timecop: LIVE!

[tomspanks 9039]

Roger Ebert brought this up in his original review as well. In the film's logic, when old Max Walker is in 1994 and returns to 2004, he is not going into the future, he is simply returning to the present. In the film, 2004 is the present and 1994 is the past. Therefore, old Max Walker could not have traveled into say, 2014 because that would be the future. Do not think about for more than 10 seconds, otherwise it collapses on itself.

 

My question is though, how can he return to the "present" when at the time he left, his return hasn't happened yet. And if he returns at the same time that he is leaving, both time cars would be on a collision course. The time cars use the SAME TRACK.

ETA: Even if he returns 1 second after he leaves, that's still the "future."

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

 

My question is though, how can he return to the "present" when at the time he left, his return hasn't happened yet. And if he returns at the same time that he is leaving, both time cars would be on a collision course. The time cars use the SAME TRACK.

ETA: Even if he returns 1 second after he leaves, that's still the "future."

 

I mean, that blows my mind because then, how would ANYONE ever get back from the past?

 

Maybe that's why the bloody spots on the wall are "twins"? The same person colliding with himself ...

[JammerLea 2070]

 

Ok, but wouldn't that last JCVD head to back to the past, 1994, and then the original one from 2004 be the one who came back?

 

I really hate time travel movies.

The way this movie sets it up, 2004 JCVD is becoming more and more a separate entity from the timeline we started with. The above diagram doesn't cover everything.

 

There must be, before the start of the movie one timeline where absolutely nothing happens to JCVD and his wife. He joins the time police, but then way in the future starts investigating Silver. Silver catches on to him, and sends his goons back to 1994. The whereabouts of this JCVD are UNKNOWN.

 

2nd timeline starts with the above. The goons arrive in 1994, they attack JCVD but fail to kill him, however Mia dies. This JCVD gets to the year 2004, starts investigating Silver. This is the JCVD we follow for the rest of the movie. He ends up joining up with the girl who's the double agent. And their blast to the past to uncover Silver meeting young Silver is what sets off Silver's goal to go back to 1994 and kill young JCVD before he can become this badass time cop.

 

Here we enter a third timeline, because when JCVD ends up back in the present, his boss doesn't know who he is. Meaning possibly one of these 1994 assassination attempts was successful, or somehow prevented/discouraged JCVD from joining the time cops, CORRECTION* he is not best friends with his boss anymore, leave the whereabouts of non-best friend timeline three JCVD as also UNKNOWN. Timeline two JCVD uses his knowledge of salty goulash to get a free trip back to 1994 to get evidence.

 

So we enter timeline four, where JCVD at some point realizes that Silver and his goons have fucked with time and THAT'S why his wife ended up dead, giving him the permission to stop them, according to time cop rules, he's preventing their messing with the timeline to cancel out timeline two. This is all fine and dandy, except as stated above, this would leave timeline four with TWO JCVD's: the one who raised a kid and the one who is a lost remnant of timeline two.

 

Because of how this film sets up that JCVD remains separate from the time changes that are being inflicted by his adventure, he never gains the memories of the life that he could have had in timelines 3 or 4, and thus cannot be the same JCVD who raises his kid. They're going to have some fun when timeline 4 JCVD gets home from work.

 

Something like that. Feel free to expand or reinterpret.

 

 

 

*Thank you SeanMatthewLeary for correcting my false memory of this insanity.

[SeanMatthewLeary 37]

 

Ok, but wouldn't that last JCVD head to back to the past, 1994, and then the original one from 2004 be the one who came back?

 

I really hate time travel movies.

 

Yeah, they're always weird. As far as I see it, the young JCVD1 we see when the initial house blew up ages 10 years to 2004, then time travels back to 94.

 

But, since events changed, he's now created a new universe where his wife survives. But, he also saves young him[JCVD2], leaving him passed out on the lawn. JCVD2 would still start the job at the agency, but the whole of the movie events where Silva causes issues never happen in universe 2.

 

Therefore, in 2004 JCVD2 wouldn't travel back to fix it and save his wife because she's never died and silva 'disappeared' in 94. So instead JCVD2 would just be out there as a daddy somewhere fixing other time stuff. So, he's likely out on a different mission or who knows, just running errands.

 

That leaves us with our initial JCVD1 from universe 1 who is now displaced and jumped to universe 2. He now is missing from universe 1 and that's why he has no memory of his kid etc. He's displaced in a whole new timeline.

[grudlian. 4725]

 

My question is though, how can he return to the "present" when at the time he left, his return hasn't happened yet. And if he returns at the same time that he is leaving, both time cars would be on a collision course. The time cars use the SAME TRACK.

ETA: Even if he returns 1 second after he leaves, that's still the "future."

I think the real question is why even put in the information that you can't travel to the future? That doesn't add anything to the movie because the movie is about going to the past to get rich. Traveling to the future isn't relevant to anything. It's unnecessary information that only makes the movie needlessly complex.

[JammerLea 2070]

So, outside of the 2 JCVD the thing that firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr brought up that I wanted to talk about, there's also the exploding house logic.

 

The house that blew up with the wife at the start of the movie is obviously the same house that is blown up the second time in the movie when she is saved.

 

But at the end of the movie when he returns to 2004 and asks his car to take him home, where does it go? The UNBLOWN UP same exact house with his saved wife and his child he has no memory of because he's jumped into an alternate universe/timeline.

WAIT

 

Going off of what I just posted!!!

 

Timeline two JCVD ends up in the 4th timeline and this is where he thwarts Silver, young and old, OUT OF EXISTENCE. Because young Silver ALSO no longer exists, he will never grow up to send his goons back to 1994 to blow ups JCVD's house!! So the end of the movie is sending us to a 5th timeline where Silver does not exist.

 

And this is where time loops become rampant, because if Silver doesn't exist, there's no reason for JCVD to investigate him, which would then cancel out the events that led up to Silver's death, and... well... good luck thinking that through.

 

 

My head hurts now...

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

 

I came here to say this, yes there would be two JCVD's. Crude visualization for you.

 

 

So say there are 2 JCVD's now in 2004 and one of them just returned home ... what the hell is going to happen when the second JCVD turns up? How do you explain that to the kid? And where do they live? They can't take the risk of living in the same house because of the whole "matter can't occupy the same space" thing. And if they do live in the same house, what would the sleeping arrangements be? What do you say to the neighbours? And who goes to the Parent teacher meetings? And then there's the whole social security thing and explaining it to doctors/hospitals ...

 

 

It's almost as if the logic of timecop is flawed!

[tomspanks 9039]

Oh my goooodddddd you can hear me yell "YES!" when June finally mentions the Internal Affairs Detective.

 

(Hint: That's what my Week in Feminism is about.)

 

At what minute is that? I can't find it

Also, can I just say that it was great to hear the live audience so engaged? The audience questions were interesting (and not cringey) and the second opinion theme singer NAILED IT.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

The closest scientific principle seems to be the Pauli Exclusion Principle, which the basic concept seems to be a general rule that an object cannot occupy the same space and time as another object. This means time travel would be very difficult to accomplish, because if you travel back in time to a street corner to the exact spot where someone or something else already exists... there's going to be a problem. I didn't delve too much into this, as it's too complicated for my understanding, but if this is the principle that Timecop's law is based on, they got a few details wrong.

The Pauli Exclusion Principle is almost certainly what Timecop Theory is based on (at least spiritually). But it pretty much has nothing to do with time travel or anything else.

 

In my very simplified understanding of quantum mechanics, the Pauli Exclusion Principle states that no two electrons (or other elementary particles) can occupy the same energy state (i.e. the same orbital and spin number). The significance of this to QM and how it relates to classical mechanics is incredibly complicated. However, the basic idea is that Pauli Exclusion reconciles something that we already know as our physical reality -- two forms of matter cannot occupy the same space -- with the seemingly counterintuitive laws of QM.

 

Long story short, Timecop Theory is bullshit.

[SeanMatthewLeary 37]

My head hurts now...

 

It's almost as if the logic of timecop is flawed!

[SeanMatthewLeary 37]

The way this movie sets it up, 2004 JCVD is becoming more and more a separate entity from the timeline we started with. The above diagram doesn't cover everything.

 

There must be, before the start of the movie one timeline where absolutely nothing happens to JCVD and his wife. He joins the time police, but then way in the future starts investigating Silver. Silver catches on to him, and sends his goons back to 1994. The whereabouts of this JCVD are UNKNOWN.

 

2nd timeline starts with the above. The goons arrive in 1994, they attack JCVD but fail to kill him, however Mia dies. This JCVD gets to the year 2004, starts investigating Silver. This is the JCVD we follow for the rest of the movie. He ends up joining up with the girl who's the double agent. And their blast to the past to uncover Silver meeting young Silver is what sets off Silver's goal to go back to 1994 and kill young JCVD before he can become this badass time cop.

 

Here we enter a third timeline, because when JCVD ends up back in the present, his boss doesn't know who he is. Meaning possibly one of these 1994 assassination attempts was successful, or somehow prevented/discouraged JCVD from joining the time cops, thus his whereabouts are also UNKNOWN. Timeline two JCVD uses his knowledge of salty goulash to get a free trip back to 1994 to get evidence.

 

So we enter timeline four, where JCVD at some point realizes that Silver and his goons have fucked with time and THAT'S why his wife ended up dead, giving him the permission to stop them, according to time cop rules, he's preventing their messing with the timeline to cancel out timeline two. This is all fine and dandy, except as stated above, this would leave timeline four with TWO JCVD's: the one who raised a kid and the one who is a lost remnant of timeline two.

 

Because of how this film sets up that JCVD remains separate from the time changes that are being inflicted by his adventure, he never gains the memories of the life that he could have had in timelines 3 or 4, and thus cannot be the same JCVD who raises his kid. They're going to have some fun when timeline 4 JCVD gets home from work.

 

Something like that. Feel free to expand or reinterpret.

 

You're 100% right. I'm going to attempt to visualize this to make my brain stop throbbing. Wish me luck.

[JammerLea 2070]

 

You're 100% right. I'm going to attempt to visualize this to make my brain stop throbbing. Wish me luck.

May luck be on your side, good sir.

[SaraK 1980]

One of you nerds went through the entire wikipedia page for poor Ron Silver and changed every reference to his name to 'Actor/Activist Ron Silva'. That must have taken too much time so good on you.

[tomspanks 9039]

Thanks JammerLea and SeanMatthewLeary for explaining this movie. You guys are the true Timecop-cops.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

i came here for some clarity and you guys have properly messed my brain up .. i love it but i need to stop reading these for a while .. i enjoy time travel movies but this is usually the end result. if only the makers of timecop had put as much thought into all this as you guys have

[FisterRoboto 7499]

Enjoy this photo I took from the dirty balcony!

Ew. Balcony trash.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

If the time travel debate is dying down, I'd like to bring up another of the film's controversies -- has anyone in life ever been saved from a fall off the roof by grabbing the gutter? No piece of aluminum tacked to a shingle is meant to hold a person's body weight, let alone two people like in this movie. Yet I see this constantly in movies, and every time I think, "bullshit!"

[Wil Dride 121]

"It's a time travel movie, but all the action takes place in 1984." - The Terminator

[IMAHUGEHDTGMFAN 1837]

Although the logic of Timecop is flawless, I had 2 questions. First, in the beginning of the movie, bobo Obama says that they recovered Confederate gold bullion dated 1863, and its age was "carbon tested" for authenticity. But as the name of the test implies, the test is done with carbon, not gold, which is a different element altogether. In addition, carbon dating is performed with radioactive carbon 14 (C-14), which is present in organic matter, like plants or animals that were once alive. The last time I checked, gold is not a living thing and therefore unable to consume C-14 from the environment. I'm sure there are tests that could determine the age of gold, but carbon dating is not it.

 

That was LITERALLY one of my notes... Equal notes cannot occupy the same forum topic

[JammerLea 2070]

One of you nerds went through the entire wikipedia page for poor Ron Silver and changed every reference to his name to 'Actor/Activist Ron Silva'. That must have taken too much time so good on you.

Aw, the vandalism has been removed already. I knew I should've taken a screenshot...

[paulscheer 489]

Give us a call On the REVAMPED - Q&A HOTLINE at 619-PAULASK

 

Ask me questions about your life, your job or love. I will answer them, and I guarantee that 25% of the time my answer is 100% right! -- It's a Google Number so charges might not apply.

 

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[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

"You know I feel like a balcony person on the inside."

 

June is an inspiration to me. I want that on a hang in there cat poster.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

The JCVD episodes never disappoint. This has to be one one of the best episodes in the history of the show.

 

Maybe it's because JCVD's films are so batshit but yet so enjoyable that they are tailor made for this podcast.

 

Or maybe it's just because I was saw all of these in the theatre and I'm reliving my youth.

 

Would love for them to eventually do Sudden Death which Van Damme and Peter Hyams made immediately following this film. Another ridiculous but well crafted action film.

Speaking of Hyams/Van Damme jams, I highly recommend the two most recent "Universal Soldier" movies, "Regeneration" and "Day of Reckoning", which are directed by JOHN Hyams, the son of director Peter Hyams. They were essentially straight-to-video/VOD movies (at least here in the States) that look WAY better than they should, probably because Peter was the cinematographer on "Regeneration", which is a direct sequel to the first film and forgets about "Universal Soldier: The Return", a flaming piece of garbage where JCVD co-starred with Bill Goldberg and Michael Jai White. Anyway, JCVD's character is still a reanimated super soldier that's now dealing with PTSD and having to save the Russian president's family (or something) from a new UniSol played by MMA fighter Andrei Arlovski, as well as the clone of Dolph Lundgren. The action is pretty sick and it looks like a Bourne movie. In "Day of Reckoning", JCVD has gone rogue and is more of a background character, leading a cult of sleeper UniSols, and it's up to Scott Adkins (whose family may or may not have been murdered by JCVD) to find him and put him down. It's sort of like "Apocalypse Now", but plays out like a conspiracy thriller/horror movie, while also featuring some sick, sick action. High recommends!

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

Give us a call On the REVAMPED - Q&A HOTLINE at 619-PAULASK

 

Ask me questions about your life, your job or love. I will answer them, and I guarantee that 25% of the time my answer is 100% right! -- It's a Google Number so charges might not apply.

 

Also, we having a HDTGM Merch sale at https://www.teepubli...-this-get-made/ Get 20% off using offer code "how-did-this-get-made"

Everything I know about the San Diego area code, I learned from...

[paultab 225]

Did anybody clock the influence this movie had on Steven Spielberg's Minority Report -- specifically, the scene where Tom Cruise, alone in his apartment, is drinking and watching (holographic) videos of his dead son and speaking his own lines in the recorded conversation?