Episode 173 - Virtuosity: LIVE!

[PollyDarton 1807]

How does Sid's serial killer composite personality even work? How do they get the personal experiences and personalities from these serial killers and then put into this program? I'm not sure information like personality are actually stored in DNA (and for that matter where does one get Hitler DNA? I shutter to ask.) I guess you could argue that you could get that kind of info from Charles Manson since he is still living and can be profiled but you can't do that with Mussolini. I guess the computer could somehow digest "Mein Kempf" but this does not seem like a satisfying answer.

 

I'm curious if I'm the only one who was stupid enough to think "Is Sid 6.7 also a vampire?" when this happened?

 

The only logical conclusion is that Dracula is one of his hundreds of personalities.

[RyanSz 3140]

A follow up if I may, can you swim to Spago from your facility?

Nope, land locked I think solely for that reason.

[RyanSz 3140]

How does Sid's serial killer composite personality even work? How do they get the personal experiences and personalities from these serial killers and then put into this program? I'm not sure information like personality are actually stored in DNA (and for that matter where does one get Hitler DNA? I shutter to ask.) I guess you could argue that you could get that kind of info from Charles Manson since he is still living and can be profiled but you can't do that with Mussolini. I guess the computer could somehow digest "Mein Kempf" but this does not seem like a satisfying answer.

Hitler still has distant relatives who have since changed their names for obvious reasons, so there could be a way to Assassin's Creed his profile through their DNA, same for Mussolini. I figure though that there is some remnants of the weapons used to beat Mussolini that could be harvested, and there was still trace DNA in the ashes of Hitler that were found in a Russian warehouse decades after the war.

 

My main question concerns how they widened their definition of serial killer in order to make Sid. At one point in the movie its revealed there are 666 personalities in Sid, but over the course of human history there haven't been that many documented serial killers, at least that have been caught. Add in dictators so it seems like the programmer was including those with serial killer personality markers as well as cult leaders like Manson who only has a kill or two to his name. We have to assume they did what you talked about and looked at MOs of famous killers like Jack the Ripper and Zodiac in order to include those personalities, but that still gets us no where near that trope of a number.

[grudlian. 4725]

The only logical conclusion is that Dracula is one of his hundreds of personalities.

That was my thought process. "Is he a vampire now? Is that one of his serial killer personalities? Part Vlad The Impaler? No, I think he's just licking her again."

[PollyDarton 1807]

That was my thought process. "Is he a vampire now? Is that one of his serial killer personalities? Part Vlad The Impaler? No, I think he's just licking her again."

 

Ah yes... he's part Rick James, then.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

My main question concerns how they widened their definition of serial killer in order to make Sid. At one point in the movie its revealed there are 666 personalities in Sid, but over the course of human history there haven't been that many documented serial killers, at least that have been caught. Add in dictators so it seems like the programmer was including those with serial killer personality markers as well as cult leaders like Manson who only has a kill or two to his name. We have to assume they did what you talked about and looked at MOs of famous killers like Jack the Ripper and Zodiac in order to include those personalities, but that still gets us no where near that trope of a number.

I'm having a hard time thinking that there have been fewer that 666 psycho killers and dictators in all of recorded history. I'm sure it's true but ... seems light, I guess.

 

I mean, there have been billions of people throughout recorded history, so those would be pretty good numbers ... I don't want to be skeptical about it.

[RyanSz 3140]

I'm having a hard time thinking that there have been fewer that 666 psycho killers and dictators in all of recorded history. I'm sure it's true but ... seems light, I guess.

 

I mean, there have been billions of people throughout recorded history, so those would be pretty good numbers ... I don't want to be skeptical about it.

That's why I was going off of recorded killers or those with a known MO like Jack the Ripper or the Axe Man of New Orleans. While Jack is considered one of the first recorded serial killers along with HH Holmes, serial killer really didn't become a term until the 1900s, and even then the base number to be considered a serial killer is three victims over two or more instances, so it is a very general term now. And now by looking at the stats for it, because it's such a low threshold to be considered one, the US alone has had almost 3000 since the FBI started tracking it. So by that logic then it's easy to get to 666, but then it becomes a matter of cutting the excess fat of those who barely are considered to include those who were either dictators like Hitler or mass murderers like Ghengis Khan and Vlad the Impaler.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

And now by looking at the stats for it, because it's such a low threshold to be considered one, the US alone has had almost 3000 since the FBI started tracking it.

I've gone from "Hey, humanity's doing pretty good" to "I'll probably be murdered in my sleep tonight."

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

Russell giving a shout out to a future project ...

 

Here's a question: How does SID know that he can regenerate?

 

Lindenmeyer doesn't seem to learn about android cocoon birth until Reilly cuts the snake in half, and he then immediately hands over SID's chip for processing. SID could not have known that there was an Android Cocoon Birth division just up the hall from the Omnipotent Serial Killer Takedown Training lab, and so that couldn't have been part of his plan. Lindenmeyer was clearly shocked by what he was seeing and wouldn't have been able to tell him before scurrying away. So how did SID know he could just regenerate himself with glass?

[RyanSz 3140]

Here's a question: How does SID know that he can regenerate?

 

Lindenmeyer doesn't seem to learn about android cocoon birth until Reilly cuts the snake in half, and he then immediately hands over SID's chip for processing. SID could not have known that there was an Android Cocoon Birth division just up the hall from the Omnipotent Serial Killer Takedown Training lab, and so that couldn't have been part of his plan. Lindenmeyer was clearly shocked by what he was seeing and wouldn't have been able to tell him before scurrying away. So how did SID know he could just regenerate himself with glass?

I remember Sid saying that he had been listening in on conversations between staff and eavesdropping on their when everyone thought he was offline, so it would be safe to assume that he was doing that to basement cocoon pervo and knew about the regeneration process.

[PollyDarton 1807]

Forgive me if this was mentioned in the episode... but how shitty is it that they regenerate with glass, wouldn't that make all his regenerated parts brittle AF?

[Cameron H. 23786]

iTunes is currently selling Jason X in HD for 4.99. These prices don’t always last long, so if you were planning on getting it before that episode drops, now might be the time to jump on that

 

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Forgive me if this was mentioned in the episode... but how shitty is it that they regenerate with glass, wouldn't that make all his regenerated parts brittle AF?

Did you just find a crossover with Unbreakable???

 

 

God, no.

 

[tomspanks 9039]

Forgive me if this was mentioned in the episode... but how shitty is it that they regenerate with glass, wouldn't that make all his regenerated parts brittle AF?

 

I did catch this bit before I fell asleep. Apparently the nanites can extract the silicon from glass (which is silicon dioxide). Silly Putty is silicon based and that stuff isn't brittle.

 

iTunes is currently selling Jason X in HD for 4.99. These prices don’t always last long, so if you were planning on getting it before that episode drops, now might be the time to jump on that

 

Bought it already!

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

I loved how Kelly Lynch (as a psychologist) ends up doing WAY more than what her qualifications would justify

• At one point she flashes what you could assume is a badge and demands that all phone lines be cut in the building. But as you can see in the provided screenshot, all that she flashes is a business card and again.... she is just a psychologist w/ no authority.
  
• After mere seconds of examining the dead asian woman who was shot on the train, she immediately deduces that it was Sid who shot her from behind vs. Denzel. She is not a forensic pathologist.
  
• Upon finding her daughter and seeing there's a bomb in play, she immediately suggests to Denzel to try and "get to the main operating system to reset the internal clock." How or why would she ever know how to do that?!
  

 

Did he find the “appendix" of all wires where if it's removed, nothing will go haywire? And how did he even know that he had a wire in his arm that would work for this situation? Was he give the blueprints?

Can the programs actually see into the room that the monitors are in, or are there some kind of scanners placed throughout the room that is designed to detect half-mast boners?

I'm just wondering if I missed when anyone explained to Parker how he could extract the "soul orb" or whatever from Sid's body. He wastes so much time firing his gun at a computer program that is unaffected by bullets that you assume he just doesn't know how else to deal with this thing. Maybe there is one throwaway line about having to remove Sid's "program" from his body (I assume this was ADR-ed in later), but no one tells Parker that it's in the back of Sid's neck, right? Yet at the crucial moment, he KNOWS. He just knows.

Here's a question: How does SID know that he can regenerate?

 

Lindenmeyer doesn't seem to learn about android cocoon birth until Reilly cuts the snake in half, and he then immediately hands over SID's chip for processing. SID could not have known that there was an Android Cocoon Birth division just up the hall from the Omnipotent Serial Killer Takedown Training lab, and so that couldn't have been part of his plan. Lindenmeyer was clearly shocked by what he was seeing and wouldn't have been able to tell him before scurrying away. So how did SID know he could just regenerate himself with glass?

I took a look back through the boards at all the times someone pointed out that a character knows something they have no way of knowing. And throughout the episode, the gang also points out a few other times, as well. It seems as though every major character, at some point, demonstrates psychic abilities.

 

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the film is set in a future where, in addition to future tech cybernetics, robotics, genetic engineering, and 3D printing, everyone of import is omniscient. This would mean that the training programs may, in fact, be correctly attuned to the search and apprehension of superhumans, as is apparently a problem in this movie's reality.

[JoelSchlosberg 352]

and for that matter where does one get Hitler DNA? I shutter to ask.

Hitler still has distant relatives who have since changed their names for obvious reasons, so there could be a way to Assassin's Creed his profile through their DNA, same for Mussolini. I figure though that there is some remnants of the weapons used to beat Mussolini that could be harvested, and there was still trace DNA in the ashes of Hitler that were found in a Russian warehouse decades after the war.

 

As explained in one of the first movies about cloning by Hitler's doctor:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVCMKN_1SeM

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

But did the film mention serial killer DNA? I thought it was their personality profile? Does that mean SID's creator had the 666 killers sit down and take a Myers Briggs test or something? Or does it mean in this vague future they have some virtual way of mapping someone's personality? Even if we allow for the possibility that said personality mapping could take place after a person's death, I still don't think, say Hitler's personality profile his head isn't intact. He's ashes. There's nothing to map?

 

IMDb says these are the killers that are shown:

 

Amongst the names of serial killers shown in Sid 6.7's personality profile are David Koresh, Thomas McIlvane, Frederick Cowan, William Bonin, Harvey Glatman, Peter Kuten, William Bryan Cruse, Charles Whitmore, Aileen Carol Wournos, Peter Sutcliffe, Kenneth McDuff, Jesse James, Dr. Glennon Engleman, Harvey Carignan, Dr. Geza de Kaplany, Norman Selby, Juan Peron, Winnie Ruth Judd, Matthew Grimes, Augosto Pinoche, Carl Panzram, Abu Nidal, Ted Bundy, Wesley Allan Dodd, Roger Dale Stafford, Elizabeth Borden, Mark Essex, Billy the Kid, Lynette Fromme, Larry Eyler, Clem Henderson, David Hendricks, Coral Eugene Watts, William McDonald, Richard Trenton Chase, Sirhan Sirhan, Josef Mengele, Ed Kemper, Edward Leonski, John Collins, Julian Knight, John Haigh, Carlton Gary, Vaughn Greenwood, Nicolae Ceausescu, Randy Kraft, Miguel Rivera, Dean Allen Corli, William Suff, Werner Boost, Thierry Paulin, Richard Trenton Chase, David Burke, Donald Harvey, Vernon Butts, Bruno Hauptman, Ralph Jerome Selz, John Duffy, Carl Weiss, Gerald Eugene Stano, Benito Mussolini, Paul Calden, Richard Farley, Ian Brady, Joseph Harris, Hiro Hito, Lynwood C. Drake, Saddam Hussein, Gilles De Rais, Herman Mudgett, Donald Nielson, Robert R. Diaz, and Joe Ball.

 

I don't know who all these people are, but I know they are not all serial or even mass murderers. (Here I am using the phrase "serial killer" to denote a murderer who kills on multiple occasions not in one angry fit. And "mass murderer" as someone who kills a whole lot of people at once.)

 

For example, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme didn't even KILL ANYONE. She tried to kill Pres. Ford but failed. She's even out on bail now.

 

So now I have to ask: what would happen if SID happened to run into one of his personalities?

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

Hitler still has distant relatives who have since changed their names for obvious reasons, so there could be a way to Assassin's Creed his profile through their DNA, same for Mussolini.

Speaking of this, has anyone seen the Assassin's Creed movie? The Animus in the movie functions in a similar way to VR machine in Virtuosity, in that they are physically acting out what takes place in VR. It's completely stupid in both instances ... why can't they just be immobile a la The Matrix?

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I don't know who all these people are, but I know they are not all serial or even mass murderers. (Here I am using the phrase "serial killer" to denote a murderer who kills on multiple occasions not in one angry fit. And "mass murderer" as someone who kills a whole lot of people at once.)

 

For example, Lynette "Squeaky" Fromme didn't even KILL ANYONE. She tried to kill Pres. Ford but failed. She's even out on bail now.

I legit mixed up Jesse James with Robert Ford in my mind because of that long ass movie title and I thought this whole time they were trying to model him after the coward and I was like "is that really who they want in there? a dude that everyone called a coward?" But Jesse James makes more sense cause yeah he was accused of some major atrocities and brutality.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

But did the film mention serial killer DNA? I thought it was their personality profile? Does that mean SID's creator had the 666 killers sit down and take a Myers Briggs test or something? Or does it mean in this vague future they have some virtual way of mapping someone's personality? Even if we allow for the possibility that said personality mapping could take place after a person's death, I still don't think, say Hitler's personality profile his head isn't intact. He's ashes. There's nothing to map?

What's funny about this is that such killer personality profiles would have a great deal of overlap since most profiling rubrics have a finite number of questions, answers, etc. Once SID had received the first 100 profiles, all the boxes would have been checked over and over again.

 

The only difference would be things that are unique to the individual's crimes or lives, and it's clear that SID doesn't really express anything that nuanced. For example, SID never paints like Hitler or Gacy, he doesn't have a penchant for axes like Lizzy Borden or bombs like Grimes, he doesn't go after high profile politicians like Sirhan or Fromme ... he's just a random nutter. If they're going to bother making him a composite of history's greatest nutters, then some small and identifying aspects on these people's personalities should come through randomly, and this just doesn't happen (save for Grimes).

 

It's almost as if the logic of Timecop Virtuosity is flawed.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

What's funny about this is that such killer personality profiles would have a great deal of overlap since most profiling rubrics have a finite number of questions, answers, etc. Once SID had received the first 100 profiles, all the boxes would have been checked over and over again.

 

The only difference would be things that are unique to the individual's crimes or lives, and it's clear that SID doesn't really express anything that nuanced. For example, SID never paints like Hitler or Gacy, he doesn't have a penchant for axes like Lizzy Borden or bombs like Grimes, he doesn't go after high profile politicians like Sirhan or Fromme ... he's just a random nutter. If they're going to bother making him a composite of history's greatest nutters, then some small and identifying aspects on these people's personalities should come through randomly, and this just doesn't happen (save for Grimes).

 

It's almost as if the logic of Timecop Virtuosity is flawed.

I would think this many personalities would tend to make a program skew more average rather than more extreme?

 

If I were making a murder program (and to be clear: I am NOT), I would at least some unifying theme, or to avoid any conflict among the personalities.

 

Like if you have a Hitler but also a Jewish killer, is the creation then paralyzed with hate for itself?

[grudlian. 4725]

If I were making a murder program (and to be clear: I am NOT)

Thank you for clarifying that. I was getting worried.

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

I would think this many personalities would tend to make a program skew more average rather than more extreme?

I guess that's kinda my point ... you'd get to the average way before you'd need 666 profiles. SID's personality would be determined after a hundred or so.

 

If I were making a murder program (and to be clear: I am NOT)

[PollyDarton 1807]

The only conclusion I can draw from this is that the film is set in a future where, in addition to future tech cybernetics, robotics, genetic engineering, and 3D printing, everyone of import is omniscient. This would mean that the training programs may, in fact, be correctly attuned to the search and apprehension of superhumans, as is apparently a problem in this movie's reality.

 

OR they are also in the matrix.

 

Also - this might be a good time to bring up that my cat's name is Sid and he's also a total asshole.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I would think this many personalities would tend to make a program skew more average rather than more extreme?

This just reminded me of Abradolf Lincler from Rick & Morty lol. The combination of Adolf Hitler and Abraham Lincoln to create the complete morally neutral leader. (Which, spoiler alert, created just a weird dude that no one really wanted around lol)