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Episode 181.5 - Minisode 181.5

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Also, if anyone is interested in the film Roar, briefly discussed on this episode, I HIGHLY recommend the Hellbent for Horror podcast episode on the movie. It's a podcast I had the honor of appearing on a few months back and manages to get to the heart of why horror is worth loving. In the episode on Roar it really digs deep into how utterly insane the behind-the-scenes events were surrounding the film. It has got to be one of the most truly bonkers productions I've ever heard of. If you like movies enough to be posting on this board, this is worth your time:

https://hellbentforhorror.com/2017/01/12/episode-029-here-there-be-lions/

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Oddly enough, the bit Paul discusses in the episode is a Bill Hicks bit.

THIS IS ALL I'M SAYING. Denis Leary's whole life was lifted from Bill Hicks' schtick!

 

Bill even joked that Leary would probably give himself cancer after his own diagnosis.

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Denis Leary also stole the premise of his hit song "Asshole" from Louis CK.

 

 

Leary was the MC at a comedy club that CK was performing, and CK's closing bit was basically "I've decided to just be an asshole, I'll go the grocery store, and I think 'Should I park in the handicap space?! Yeah, I'm an asshole now' and I park right in the handicap space!"

 

CK left the stage, Leary comes on to introduce the next act, and carried on riffing on Louis's bit.

 

About a week later, CK walks into a club, Leary's on stage, all of a sudden "I've just decided that I'm gonna be an asshole, should I park in that handicap space? Well, I'm an asshole, so I park in the space", the bit kills, and then he parlay's that into a hit song. All off the back of Louis CK's bit.

 

A few years later, CK runs into Leary, and they start talking about what they're doing, Louis then says "I'm trying to get this project off the ground, but I'm trying to secure funding", without hesitating, Leary pulls out his checkbook and writes Louis a check, which Louis extrapolated as "Well, he made a shitload of money off my bit, so he's giving me a taste".

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In honor of Rockstar, I was just curious, are there any bands out there on your “must buy” list? By which I mean, without hearing a note of music, if so-and-so is releasing new material, you’re buying the album.

 

I’ll extend this question to include any artists work (i.e. actors/directors/authors etc)

 

Any one of Dan Boeckner's bands, Spoon, STRFKR, Car Seat Headrest (although he's still very young so that could change at some point)

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I have the same feeling for this episode that I had in anticipation for LOL episode.

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"That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!"

This movie owes me pain and suffering.

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Rock Star and Ladybugs are the two films that were covered at Largo this past week!

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"That's not how this works. That's not how any of this works!"

This movie owes me pain and suffering.

 

I have notes on it, I actually made notes for this episode, first time I've ever done that for HDTGM.

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I'm glad Paul is with me on the "do valentine's on another day" idea.

 

Fuck yeah. I once bought a bouquet of flowers the day after Valentines that was reduced from £45, to £15.

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Cameron H (and other parents as well I just know Cameron has two kids), I have a random question

 

Do you believe that the media your sons take in can have an effect on the way they view the world? I know that the "violence in movies" debate has been going on for decades now, but we see that movies and tv shows and video games can have a positive effect on people so could they then have a negative impact?

 

I just saw that parents are wanting to boycott Peter Rabbit because they show the rabbits attempting to kill their nemesis by purposefully forcing him to eat something he is allergic to (knowing that he is allergic) and that does seem really fucked up, and by all accounts kids could file that in their brain as a valid thing to do if the cute little bunnies are doing it to a bad man.

 

It's a weird debate for sure and I'm still not sure what side of the aisle I fall on but lbr kids are fucking idiots and apparently over the summer a British 13 yo was in fact murdered when his bullies put cheese into his food knowing he was allergic (idk if they didn't believe him or thought watching him struggle to breath would be funny but the poor kid did die).

 

EDIT: Oh Cameron I just saw you were sick and I hope you get better soon!

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Cameron H (and other parents as well I just know Cameron has two kids), I have a random question

 

Do you believe that the media your sons take in can have an effect on the way they view the world? I know that the "violence in movies" debate has been going on for decades now, but we see that movies and tv shows and video games can have a positive effect on people so could they then have a negative impact?

 

I just saw that parents are wanting to boycott Peter Rabbit because they show the rabbits attempting to kill their nemesis by purposefully forcing him to eat something he is allergic to (knowing that he is allergic) and that does seem really fucked up, and by all accounts kids could file that in their brain as a valid thing to do if the cute little bunnies are doing it to a bad man.

 

It's a weird debate for sure and I'm still not sure what side of the aisle I fall on but lbr kids are fucking idiots and apparently over the summer a British 13 yo was in fact murdered when his bullies put cheese into his food knowing he was allergic (idk if they didn't believe him or thought watching him struggle to breath would be funny but the poor kid did die).

 

It's a weird debate to have, because their are so many contributing factors to this, but the biggest factor in all of these things seems to be the parenting.

 

While I don't want to say "Well, I did all that, and I turned out fine", but while I grew up on video games like Mortal Kombat, Street Fighter, etc, copious Schwarzenegger, Stallone, Van Damme, Eastwood etc, movies, and a lifelong wrestling fan. I never found myself behaving in such a way, because my parents were excellent in saying "This is all make believe, this isn't real and you cannot act like this in the real world". They weren't uber-strict parents, they were always talking about this stuff, mainly because our grandmother would take us to the "Tape Shop" as she called it, and just got anything.

 

However, those who acted out and had behavioural problems, they had shitty parents. There was a kid in my class who would grope other kids, and in retrospect, he was a 10 year old sex pest. After he ran up behind a girl and did something, some parents complained, and as it turned out, the kid's parents basically had porn just laying around the house and had an attitude of "Well, if he sees it, then he sees it."

 

So, I think there's potential, but it falls upon the parents to keep them on the right track, if they're concerned, don't take them to see it. But, kids are dicks, there was a lad I knew who had epilepsy, so other kids would call him "Eppo Leppo" and flick the lights on and off in an effort to trigger a seizure, and they got that from a chat show.

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But, kids are dicks, there was a lad I knew who had epilepsy, so other kids would call him "Eppo Leppo" and flick the lights on and off in an effort to trigger a seizure.

Yeah I was about to say that not only can kids be stupid they can be intentional dicks. It does chalk up to the parenting a lot of the times but I've also seen kids in great households that take cues from society that they need to act a certain way (there's also the sociological discussion that picking out the "others" is inherent in ANY sense).

 

I guess I see this new age we're all living in and how important it is to be represented properly in the media we digest. I mean both Whoopi and Oprah can site specific moments from TV where they knew they could actually do something good with their lives (seeing Nichelle Nichols on Star Trek and Sydney Poitier win an Oscar respectively).

 

So why wouldn't seeing the hero of a movie attempt to murder by food influence a shitty kid to go do that to this kid he hates that has an allergy?

 

IDK I'm not like advocating for censorship or whatever, but definitely at the very least an honest discussion about what we're putting out there for everyone to see.

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Cameron H (and other parents as well I just know Cameron has two kids), I have a random question

 

Do you believe that the media your sons take in can have an effect on the way they view the world? I know that the "violence in movies" debate has been going on for decades now, but we see that movies and tv shows and video games can have a positive effect on people so could they then have a negative impact?

Yes, in my experience. Boys and girls both are influenced by the imagery they consume.

 

I have a daughter who is almost two, and already I'm amazed by the stuff that she sees and repeats. Then on the flipside, I see my two teenage nephews, whose entire personalities are an amalgam of catch-phrases, inside jokes, and fandom. The way they speak, dress, joke, and behave are all inspired from things they've encountered. And I frequently hear my in-laws say things like "I just don't know where they picked that up from." It's all really made me understand the limits of control I have over the ideas she is being exposed to. And a lot of those ideas come from pop culture (or, just culture, generally).

 

To be fair, parents are crazy, across the board. And they do great harm to themselves and each other by being overly cautious. I don't think I need to hide violence from my child, but I do need to be there to offer context and perspective, or else she could learn the wrong thing. I was playing Telltale's Batman one day while my daughter was in the room, and later, I watched her snatch her Elmo plushie up and hold it against the wall by the throat, just like Batman does when he's shaking down a punk-ass in the game. So yeah, they learn, and I need to be there to explain that Batman can accost the punkass because he derives moral authority from his childhood trauma and his thunderous wealth (ok, maybe that's not the right lesson).

 

When I was a kid, I remember the big controversy over Beavis and Butthead that erupted after a kid burned down their house while screaming "Fire! Fire!" in Beavis' voice. Then there's Lionel Tate, who killed his neighbor by accident because he didn't know that pro wrestling is fake.

 

Yes, kids are idiots, but the "see and imitate" behavior is universal, regardless of age. Take this community -- we are all erudite, eloquent thinkers and writers, but we also partially communicate through memes and movie quotes. That's the same process at work: I see this, I like this, I try this, I use this.

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Cameron H (and other parents as well I just know Cameron has two kids), I have a random question

 

Do you believe that the media your sons take in can have an effect on the way they view the world? I know that the "violence in movies" debate has been going on for decades now, but we see that movies and tv shows and video games can have a positive effect on people so could they then have a negative impact?

 

I just saw that parents are wanting to boycott Peter Rabbit because they show the rabbits attempting to kill their nemesis by purposefully forcing him to eat something he is allergic to (knowing that he is allergic) and that does seem really fucked up, and by all accounts kids could file that in their brain as a valid thing to do if the cute little bunnies are doing it to a bad man.

 

It's a weird debate for sure and I'm still not sure what side of the aisle I fall on but lbr kids are fucking idiots and apparently over the summer a British 13 yo was in fact murdered when his bullies put cheese into his food knowing he was allergic (idk if they didn't believe him or thought watching him struggle to breath would be funny but the poor kid did die).

 

EDIT: Oh Cameron I just saw you were sick and I hope you get better soon!

 

Thanks for the well wishes, Taylor. I am extraordinarily sore, but I’m making an effort to be out of bed.

 

Honestly, yours is a tough question. Ultimately, though, I think it’s the responsibility of the parent to give context to the child. A movie is meant to entertain, not necessarily teach life lessons. And even if there is a “moral,” it’s important that the child is taking the right thing away - especially when the moral doesn’t necessarily jib with your own world view (I’m looking at you Angry Birds and your xenophobic message). The idea that bad guys are usually “ugly” is more an issue for me. I can’t remember which movie it was, but when my son saw an “ugly” character, he automatically assumed that character was “bad.” It took awhile to explain that this thing was the main character’s friend.

 

Another odd one - that I was just talking about yesterday, as a matter of fact - is that my son has almost zero concept of “death.” We we’re watching a kids movie yesterday, where one of the characters “died,” but of course, by the end, she gets better. It started me thinking about how death in most children’s media is pretty transitory. The effect is, “There’s no reason to be upset by this because I know this character will come back eventually.” It’s pretty disturbing, actually - especially when you extrapolate that idea further. And while I don’t advocate bloodbaths in children’s entertainment, there should be more emphasis on deaths permanence. If there are no consequences than death becomes almost meaningless. Most violence is bloodless against faceless hordes. Their lives mean nothing (not saying that they should necessarily) Even something like Mario can be problematic. He can jump of this cliff a million times and never die. You just start over or walk away or do it again.

 

And, of course, explaining the realities of death to a kindergartner is not exactly a fun. I don’t want to scare him, but I also don’t want him to trivialize it either.

 

I’m not sure if that answered your question - lol. Exploiting an allergy,I’m cool with; Characters running through movies like the used the Konami Code, I do.

 

There’s also an aspect that I read a month ago or so on Marc Bernardin’s Twitter feed, which was: just because a movie from your past might seem benign - and, of course you want to share it with your kids - doesn’t mean it’s not still important that you watch them with your kin to provide context. You sometimes forget the fact that the movies you loved growing up are problematic. For instance, in Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure where Bill thinks Ted died. A little while later they are reunited, they embrace, pull apart, and call each other a “f*g.” In the grand scheme of things, B&T is mostly harmless, but it is still a product of its time. It’s important, as a parent, to tell your kid, “I know you’re enjoying this, but that’s not really cool.”

 

I guess what I’m saying is: be mindful. But it might be more beneficial to walk your kids through older movies rather than newer ones. (But still, totally fuck Angry Birds)

 

ETA: lots of typos in that. Please give me a break today ;)

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Yeah I was about to say that not only can kids be stupid they can be intentional dicks. It does chalk up to the parenting a lot of the times but I've also seen kids in great households that take cues from society that they need to act a certain way (there's also the sociological discussion that picking out the "others" is inherent in ANY sense).

 

I guess I see this new age we're all living in and how important it is to be represented properly in the media we digest. I mean both Whoopi and Oprah can site specific moments from TV where they knew they could actually do something good with their lives (seeing Nichelle Nichols on Star Trek and Sydney Poitier win an Oscar respectively).

 

So why wouldn't seeing the hero of a movie attempt to murder by food influence a shitty kid to go do that to this kid he hates that has an allergy?

 

IDK I'm not like advocating for censorship or whatever, but definitely at the very least an honest discussion about what we're putting out there for everyone to see.

 

I think it's changing society as a whole that "Good" is Lame.

 

To use a Pro Wrestling as a template for it, because it's what I know. Back in the 80s, Hulk Hogan was the All-American Good Guy, he was telling kids to train hard, take vitamins, say their prayers and drink their milk before bedtime. He was everything good and fair in the world.

 

It carried on into the Mid 90s with guys like Bret Hart, who was all about playing fair, technical ability, and being a positive role model. People then got tired of the good guy who played fair, they wanted Stone Cold Steve Austin, who drank beer, swore on TV and kicked the shit out of everyone, they liked The Rock, who made fun of everyone, they liked D-Generation X who pointed to their crotch telling people to "Suck It".

 

So now, the good guys in pretty much every form of media has to be cool and edgy, but the problem arises when there's no one around to say "Hey, you can't actually do this shit in the real world, it's not real". I think that's what the problem is, it's the lack of conversation, which is why it frustrates the fuck out of me when I see people going on chat shows and the news when there's a thing about video games, and they say "My 12 year old son is playing Grand Theft Auto, and the violence, the language is not suitable for children, and I want it banned!" and nobody says "Why's your 12 year old playing an 18 rated game? You bought it for him and you didn't know what was in it?"

 

There's a measure of responibility that should be taken on both ends, those who produce it to say "Hey, this is fiction, don't be a dick", and those who show it to others to say "Don't act like this". One that was very good at this was the Need for Speed franchise, where they'd have a cut scene at the beginning saying "You're playing a video game, we can't get hurt, drive responsibly in the real world" or something to that effect.

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Another odd one - that I was just talking about yesterday, as a matter of fact - is that my son has almost zero concept of “death.” We we’re watching a kids movie yesterday, where one of the characters “died,” but of course, by the end, she gets better. It started me thinking about how death in most children’s media is pretty transitory. The effect is, “There’s no reason to be upset by this because I know this character will come back eventually.” It’s pretty disturbing, actually - especially when you extrapolate that idea further. And while I don’t advocate bloodbaths in children’s entertainment, there should be more emphasis on deaths permanence. If there are no consequences than death becomes almost meaningless. Most violence is bloodless against faceless hordes. Their lives mean nothing (not saying that they should necessarily) Even something like Mario can be problematic. He can jump of this cliff a million times and never die. You just start over or walk away or do it again.

 

And, of course, explaining the realities of death to a kindergartner is not exactly a fun. I don’t want to scare him, but I also don’t want him to trivialize it either.

 

I was gonna say "Final Fantasy VII would be your best bet with that kind of thing", but then remembered it's a 12-rated game, so probably not best for really young kids.

 

But holy shit, when Aeris dies, pack your bags kids, you're going on a feels trip.

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There's really no way of knowing what effect either media or your own instruction will have on a child. My parents were super-strict. I grew up on a farm with no cable or internet until I was almost in college. They had a very tight grip on my exposure to culture, and they would flip out if they found out that I had seen this movie or heard that music from a friend at school. I'm sure they thought they were just doing what was best for me, but all that did was make me actively seek out the stuff I knew they disapproved of, which caused rifts that still haven't been fully repaired. So I entered into parenthood feeling like I'd be the total opposite with my daughter and ... well, then she started going Dark Knight on her stuffed animals.

 

So yeah ... the most important thing is to just be a guiding voice and a point of reason. This rest is up to the randomness of the universe and human experience.

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I was gonna say "Final Fantasy VII would be your best bet with that kind of thing", but then remembered it's a 12-rated game, so probably not best for really young kids.

 

But holy shit, when Aeris dies, pack your bags kids, you're going on a feels trip.

 

Minor update on this post, I've bummed myself out thinking about it, because then I thought to myself "I don't really cry at stuff like this, but this had an impact on me, that might have been the closest I've come to shedding a tear at a game... oh god, I forgot about John Marston", oh god I was sad for DAYS about that one, FUCK YOU EDGAR ROSS!!

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I'm also thinking that obviously every kid is different. If, for example, Peter Rabbit traumatizes a kid that has a severe allergy are we as a society not wrong for telling that mother or father to get over being angry at the movie that's supposed to be fun for children to watch?

 

I have to agree with Triple Lindy that we really will never be able to tell what sticks in a child's mind (curse words tho - those always seem to stick) but I guess what I'm REALLY tired of is people telling someone they're overreacting and to get over it. Probably a little bit of personal exhaustion there since women certainly get told that a lot lmaaaoooo.

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I'm also thinking that obviously every kid is different. If, for example, Peter Rabbit traumatizes a kid that has a severe allergy are we as a society not wrong for telling that mother or father to get over being angry at the movie that's supposed to be fun for children to watch?

 

I have to agree with Triple Lindy that we really will never be able to tell what sticks in a child's mind (curse words tho - those always seem to stick) but I guess what I'm REALLY tired of is people telling someone they're overreacting and to get over it. Probably a little bit of personal exhaustion there since women certainly get told that a lot lmaaaoooo.

 

 

That's one thing that's really frustrating now, is the "all or nothing" metality that people have. Say "I don't like this here", it's no longer "Well, that's your perogative, I disagree", it's "Are you triggered?! You wanna go to a safe space, snowflake?!" because nuance is all but gone.

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I have to agree with Triple Lindy that we really will never be able to tell what sticks in a child's mind (curse words tho - those always seem to stick) but I guess what I'm REALLY tired of is people telling someone they're overreacting and to get over it. Probably a little bit of personal exhaustion there since women certainly get told that a lot lmaaaoooo.

 

 

That's one thing that's really frustrating now, is the "all or nothing" metality that people have. Say "I don't like this here", it's no longer "Well, that's your perogative, I disagree", it's "Are you triggered?! You wanna go to a safe space, snowflake?!" because nuance is all but gone.

That's exactly what I mean when I say that parents do damage to each other.

 

Every parent says the same thing ... 1. "Well, all kids are different and you shouldn't put too much stock in what other parents say ... " and 2. " ... but let me tell you about my experience."

 

My wife and I always laugh at people who ask "What parenting books do you read?" Because we don't read parenting books, at all. We want our decisions to be based in our actual response to our daughter, not in what a book told us should work. Educating yourself is important but holding your child up to hypothetical standards does nothing but stress you out. Example: Our daughter never crawled ... she went from writhing around on the floor to cruising along the furniture. And the whole time, we were stressing about these developmental benchmarks and being told "Well, she's bound to start anytime ... but my child started walking right out of the womb." And nothing came from it ... she walks, runs, crawls, climbs ... you'd never know now that there was ever a problem.

 

Same goes for what they learn from movies. Just pay attention and respond accordingly.

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That's exactly what I mean when I say that parents do damage to each other.

 

Every parent says the same thing ... 1. "Well, all kids are different and you shouldn't put too much stock in what other parents say ... " and 2. " ... but let me tell you about my experience."

 

My wife and I always laugh at people who ask "What parenting books do you read?" Because we don't read parenting books, at all. We want our decisions to be based in our actual response to our daughter, not in what a book told us should work. Educating yourself is important but holding your child up to hypothetical standards does nothing but stress you out. Example: Our daughter never crawled ... she went from writhing around on the floor to cruising along the furniture. And the whole time, we were stressing about these developmental benchmarks and being told "Well, she's bound to start anytime ... but my child started walking right out of the womb." And nothing came from it ... she walks, runs, crawls, climbs ... you'd never know now that there was ever a problem.

 

Same goes for what they learn from movies. Just pay attention and respond accordingly.

 

Your "parents doing damage to each other" just reminded me of one of the single greated burns I've ever heard.

 

When I was about 16, my mum visited some friends for the weekend, so she trusted my 19 year old brother and I was not burning the house down.

 

Well, I met up with some friends, they decided to neck an entire three litre bottle of White Lightning each. This White Lighting was a cheap as fuck White cider, which might as well have been legally classed as paint thinner, you could get these three litre bottles, which were 8% vol, and you could get them for £2 a bottle. So, after they necked these bottles, they were pissed out their faces, And they left a mess for me to clean up before my mum got home, one of them had been sick on the patio so badly, it had stained the stonework.

 

Well, my mum calls his house and said "He needs to come up here and clean it up!" and they argued about it, and my mum said "What was he doing with cider?!" and this guy's mum replied said "Oh yeah?! You're the one who left for the weekend, leaving your kids on their own!" and my mum just came back at her with "You were at home and your son drank an entrie three litre bottle of cider and was rolling around drunk! While my son didn't drink anything!"

 

It was just beautiful.

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That's one thing that's really frustrating now, is the "all or nothing" metality that people have. Say "I don't like this here", it's no longer "Well, that's your perogative, I disagree", it's "Are you triggered?! You wanna go to a safe space, snowflake?!" because nuance is all but gone.

Not to get political but there are certainly a few different kinds of media being thrown into people's brains to cause that shit.

 

It's also seems to be sparring from other things like if you see someone agreeing with a Nazi then that's a black and white scenario but like you said other situations (like a fucking Peter Rabbit movie) have nuance to them and deserve a discussion.

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