Episode 199 - A Night In Heaven: LIVE!

[Crummy Scrimmage 188]

9 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Is there any scene in the movie that looks even remotely like this? Who is that woman supposed to be?

Sheena Easton?? Seriously though, none of the women in the strip club were dressed like that. Lots of ruffled blouses and -- to the MC's credit -- polyester. It's likely that the poster was created simply to further piggyback off the success of Flashdance. 

My biggest grievance against the poster is that it makes the movie look fun. This movie was NOT fun.

[s/t 3]

On 10/12/2018 at 8:39 AM, SlidePocket said:

I don't know if it's discussed, but Andy Garcia makes a very early appearance in the film playing a bartender! I couldn't recall ever seeing him in this movie because his part might have been reduced, but could anyone post a picture of him from this movie?

As I said when I saw him, holy shit, that was Andy Garcia! Makes an appearance right after the kidnap scene:

[phyzzi 28]

Since this is the same screenwriter as "Nashville", I guess that explains...

Also, "Shark Free Pool"? Wut?

[gigi-tastic 2322]

15 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Some more big questions:

1. At what strip club can strippers actually kiss their customers live on stage and no one gets in trouble? I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no in that business.

2. I was confused about the time line near the end. Rick has sex with Faye in the hotel room, then she leaves, and then she returns after what seems like a short time to find Rick already having shower sex with his other girlfriend. How quickly did he manage to set this up? And how quickly did Faye's husband get to that hotel after having just talked to her on the phone? Is everyone just hanging around in the vicinity of this hotel all the time?

3. Let's take a look at this poster:

Is there any scene in the movie that looks even remotely like this? Who is that woman supposed to be?

The husband was using the  hotel's phone while staring at their security feed I guess? My question is when a rando asks you what room you just came out of why you would tell them?  Rick isn't paying attention and doesn't notice it's the husband and so he's just telling a total stranger what room he's just been in. 

[iamSGA 21]

wow. This guy is riding a recumbent bike in 1983. 

 

Truly ahead of his time--living in 2018 back then. 

[iamSGA 21]

this movie is straight cringe lol. Those strip scenes w/the guys just passionately kissing everyone. 

That would never happen in any club.

 

This movie is wild as hell for 1983

[PollyDarton 1807]

18 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Some more big questions:

1. At what strip club can strippers actually kiss their customers live on stage and no one gets in trouble? I'm pretty sure that's a big no-no in that business.

I fully admit that this is anecdotal... and it was also about 2005, but I had a good friend who was a stripper and one night she invited me to go with her to her club to see a Chippendale's type show (generic Chippendales...I can't remember their name.) By the time the dudes showed up , very late, the place was PACKED with ladies who were well on their way to being drunk AF. There were only 4 or 5 guys performing, and yes they wore themed costumes (this seems to be a feature of male dance reviews since it is not as "every day" as women's strip clubs are and by definition are a bit more theatrical... and to be fair lady strippers wear themed costumes too... it's just not the rule.)

ANYHOO - the whole point of this post is that - yes - the male dancers have a much different party-line when it comes to touching. In most strip clubs around the US you do NOT touch the female strippers end of story. Male dancers do not seem to have this rule (at least these dancers at this time). I was groped, touched, and my hands were placed on the dancer's bodies by the dancers themselves... many times. If you had dollar bills they let you do all the touching you want. As they went through the crowd it was a veritable free for all. I do not remember a lot of kissing, but I do believe it happened. It was insane... in my memory it was very much similar to the scenes in this movie where the ladies just lost their minds. Also keep in mind that almost every time I have ever seen a male stripper, they do not get to down to the Fully Monty as they say... there's always a tinier banana hammock underneath every layer of clothing...like a filthy russian nesting doll.

NOW - it probably goes without saying - this was pre "me too" and I wonder if the Chippendale culture hasn't changed quite a bit. I can only imagine that the dancers touching the female patrons would be verboten these days... maybe the patrons have to sign a consent form?

In conclusion - do I believe this this movie is accurate to early 80s male stripper culture? Oh yes I do.

 

PS. I was so happy that Paul mentioned the strip club scene in Mr. Mom, which is one of my favorite movies and I recognized its similarity to Rick's stripping scene instantly. This is the best clip I could find, but it's a hilarious companion to this movie... the stripper in this one is into Michael Keaton.

 

[KellStarr 39]

35 minutes ago, iamSGA said:

this movie is straight cringe lol. Those strip scenes w/the guys just passionately kissing everyone. 

That would never happen in any club.

That really grossed me out! And everyone is just watching them ... some show!

I’m also wondering if anyone had hoped Slick character was going to be expanded on? I got the vibe that she might have been a Mr. Fagin type controlling Rick and his personal life. She hated him being around Faye and she knew how to get to him.

I also want to give this movie one small compliment. I actually really liked the shot where the girls are walking into the first strip club and Slick’s new car pulls in front of them and drives off. I don’t know it was nice small detail that you had to be looking for. Compliment over.

[PollyDarton 1807]

A big failure of this movie, that I think the filmmakers thought might be a strength, was that they don't spell out a lot of things and don't tell the whole story in some places. For instance, the weird AF scene with the husband and the woman he runs into and catches up with in the kid's bedroom. I think what happened there is that HUBS used to work with her husband, but he died and they lost touch... here they are reminiscing for no reason and adds nothing to the film except that it shows old Hubsy might not be that far from straying either. They never flat out tell the story of their relationship... as most people don't when they are catching up with people they know. Unfortunately, this vagueness is just strange and uncalled for.

And of course the other big vague relationship is Slick and Rick. Slick is Rick's girlfriend and they set it up from the beginning ... I would even say it's the biggest  throughline for the entire movie. When we first see Slick on the asinine commercial, the guy watching the commercial says "Tony says that's his best friend's girlfriend"... Tony is the guy dancing with the floor polisher in the hallway and his best friend is Rick. Why they decided to give us this information here is a mystery. When we see her next she is waiting outside Rick's trailer to pick him up... she sees that he's had sex with the blonde girl and is clearly hostile about it, but god love them I think the filmmakers were trying to make their relationship nuanced (and to be fair - FAILED, they were trying to be too smart for this stupid movie.) It's a little like the movie shows them in a rough patch in their relationship and what we see in the end in the shower is them getting back together. The movie NEVER flat out expresses this, but Slick is always hanging around in the background of Rick's scenes... she shows up almost every time. It's like they are trying to show that although she does express some mild jealousy, Rick sleeping around (right or wrong) is a known fact about their relationship. One line of dialogue at the trailer park could have made this clearer.

Also - WTF was that commercial for?

[PollyDarton 1807]

On 10/12/2018 at 4:49 PM, mduncan55 said:

Absolutely killing me that they are calling the Bryan Adams song "All That I Need" instead of its actual name which is "Heaven", both because this is one of my favorite songs of all time, and because it actually explains why they would use it in this movie. (Though not why Mr. Adams would allow them.)

Yes... I think it was Tawny who kept saying Bryan Adams "Baby you're all that I want"... which just drove me crazy because she called it that a few times.

And on that note... somebody help me out. The lyrics are:

Baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

Shouldn't it be "I'm findin' it hard to believe we're NOT in heaven"... finding it hard to believe we ARE in heaven doesn't sound like a compliment. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

55 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

Baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

Shouldn't it be "I'm findin' it hard to believe we're NOT in heaven"... finding it hard to believe we ARE in heaven doesn't sound like a compliment. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

Maybe it's supposed to be like, "Whoa, man, I can't believe we're actually in heaven!" Like a euphoric disbelief or an amazing mind-blowing circumstance.

9 hours ago, phyzzi said:

Since this is the same screenwriter as "Nashville", I guess that explains...

Also, "Shark Free Pool"? Wut?

Hey man ... it's Florida.

[Crummy Scrimmage 188]

10 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

And on that note... somebody help me out. The lyrics are:

Baby, you're all that I want
When you're lyin' here in my arms
I'm findin' it hard to believe
We're in heaven

Shouldn't it be "I'm findin' it hard to believe we're NOT in heaven"... finding it hard to believe we ARE in heaven doesn't sound like a compliment. Anybody got any thoughts on this?

The name of the strip club is Heaven, and Faye does seem to have a hard time reconciling the fact that she's there. She's finding it hard to believe that she and her sister ("we") are in Heaven. 

I hate myself for trying to defend this mess.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

14 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

I fully admit that this is anecdotal... and it was also about 2005, but I had a good friend who was a stripper and one night she invited me to go with her to her club to see a Chippendale's type show (generic Chippendales...I can't remember their name.) By the time the dudes showed up , very late, the place was PACKED with ladies who were well on their way to being drunk AF. There were only 4 or 5 guys performing, and yes they wore themed costumes (this seems to be a feature of male dance reviews since it is not as "every day" as women's strip clubs are and by definition are a bit more theatrical... and to be fair lady strippers wear themed costumes too... it's just not the rule.)

ANYHOO - the whole point of this post is that - yes - the male dancers have a much different party-line when it comes to touching. In most strip clubs around the US you do NOT touch the female strippers end of story. Male dancers do not seem to have this rule (at least these dancers at this time). I was groped, touched, and my hands were placed on the dancer's bodies by the dancers themselves... many times. If you had dollar bills they let you do all the touching you want. As they went through the crowd it was a veritable free for all. I do not remember a lot of kissing, but I do believe it happened. It was insane... in my memory it was very much similar to the scenes in this movie where the ladies just lost their minds. Also keep in mind that almost every time I have ever seen a male stripper, they do not get to down to the Fully Monty as they say... there's always a tinier banana hammock underneath every layer of clothing...like a filthy russian nesting doll.

NOW - it probably goes without saying - this was pre "me too" and I wonder if the Chippendale culture hasn't changed quite a bit. I can only imagine that the dancers touching the female patrons would be verboten these days... maybe the patrons have to sign a consent form?

In conclusion - do I believe this this movie is accurate to early 80s male stripper culture? Oh yes I do.

Interesting. The patriarchy holds even in male strip clubs.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

16 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

A big failure of this movie, that I think the filmmakers thought might be a strength, was that they don't spell out a lot of things and don't tell the whole story in some places. For instance, the weird AF scene with the husband and the woman he runs into and catches up with in the kid's bedroom. I think what happened there is that HUBS used to work with her husband, but he died and they lost touch... here they are reminiscing for no reason and adds nothing to the film except that it shows old Hubsy might not be that far from straying either. They never flat out tell the story of their relationship... as most people don't when they are catching up with people they know. Unfortunately, this vagueness is just strange and uncalled for.

And of course the other big vague relationship is Slick and Rick. Slick is Rick's girlfriend and they set it up from the beginning ... I would even say it's the biggest  throughline for the entire movie. When we first see Slick on the asinine commercial, the guy watching the commercial says "Tony says that's his best friend's girlfriend"... Tony is the guy dancing with the floor polisher in the hallway and his best friend is Rick. Why they decided to give us this information here is a mystery. When we see her next she is waiting outside Rick's trailer to pick him up... she sees that he's had sex with the blonde girl and is clearly hostile about it, but god love them I think the filmmakers were trying to make their relationship nuanced (and to be fair - FAILED, they were trying to be too smart for this stupid movie.) It's a little like the movie shows them in a rough patch in their relationship and what we see in the end in the shower is them getting back together. The movie NEVER flat out expresses this, but Slick is always hanging around in the background of Rick's scenes... she shows up almost every time. It's like they are trying to show that although she does express some mild jealousy, Rick sleeping around (right or wrong) is a known fact about their relationship. One line of dialogue at the trailer park could have made this clearer.

Also - WTF was that commercial for?

I got the feeling that Slick and Rick were friends with benefits. When Lesley Anne Warren finds them in her hotel room shower Slick says something like " Aren't you getting a little too old for this shit?  Because I am." Meaning she's tired of being on the sidelines or being a part of his messy sex life.  

 

I know that when the husband is talking to that lady in the kid's bedroom he mentions he should have kissed her "that night". So I think they all worked together at NASA and she was an almost flame that never happened. 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

Why didn't the club have an actual stage? Like its just a bunch of steps and then your on the main floor. There's no real place for the male dancers to actually put on a show except in the crowd itself. That would suck if you weren't in the first two rows. Like yes get off the stage and mingle but they should still have a stage for some kind of routine.

[hotironskillet 137]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:51 AM, RyanSz said:

I'm sure there is something on archive.org or JSTOR, but I don't want to consider the search phrasing I'd have to put together to find what might have been talked about in the show.

I didn't find anything written specifically in Psychology Today but male strip clubs do seem to be a focus of research in the 80s.

Here are 3 articles I found

Male Strippers: Ladies' Night at the Meat Market

Invasion of the Male Strippers: Role Alignment in a Small‐Town Strip Club

Gender Roles, Sexuality, and the Male Strip Show: The Structuring of Sexual Opportunity

 

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 10/12/2018 at 11:43 PM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

Has anyone found any psychology magazine articles about strip clubs in the 80s. I searched Psychology Today and didn't find anything that old.

I think I found it!!!!! 

I found it in an old newspaper archive:

"You've come a long way. baby — at least according to a recent study by two Georgia State University researchers. The subject of their scholarly treatises Male strip shows. According to the 14 male strippers interviewed, their fans are “crazy,” “dangerous,'’ “wild" and "dirty.” (They expected, perhaps, Queen Elizabeth sitting front row center, sipping tea and passing out cucumber sandwiches?) As reported in Psychology Today, the female member of the research team went to a male strip show in Atlanta once a week for eight months. The audience, described as housewives, secretaries, students and professional women from 18 to 60. often showed up an hour early to get seats within grabbing range of the performers. They yelled things like. "Bring out the men!” They also would rip off the dancers G-strings and proposition their favorites before, during and especially after the show, as well as touch, pinch and kiss them during their "tabletop numbers The male dancers, the study reveals, feel “exploited and degraded.” Gosh, fellas Next thing we know you’ll be complaining that women are only interested in you for your bodies"

Eureka Time's Standard  June 26, 1983

https://newspaperarchive.com/eureka-times-standard-jun-26-1983-p-56/

Has the entire newspaper page complete with a photo of a male stripper kissing a patron. Ironically the story above this is about a company putting the bible on a video disc. I still can't find the exact Psychology Today article though. Maybe someone else can with this info. I'll keep trying though because now I *have* to read this!

Also I feel bad for these guys. They needed better management. Just because you're a stripper doesn't mean you're customers are entitled to your body.

[EvRobert 1684]

Since we're talking about Bryan Adams' Heaven, let me regale you with DJ FACTS with DJERob 

I've been DJing since 2012. I play Heaven a LOT. I grew up on this song. I never knew it was from this movie. I never even heard of this movie. So I did some research. Apparently, Adams wrote it in 82/83 while opening for Journey and was inspired by Journey's Faithfully. it was released in 83 on the A Night In Heaven Soundtrack and then subsequently re-released in 84 on Adams' Reckless album. It was released as the THIRD single off that album. It hit the #1 spot on the Billboard top 100 in June of 85, so about a year and a half after appearing on the Night In Heaven soundtrack. 

So, they either renamed the club/movie and added in the "Baby you're all I need" lines when they stumbled upon this Bryan Adams song or they lucked into finding a Bryan Adams song that just happened to have the same name and lyrics or both. I can't find any evidence that he wrote it for the movie specifically. 

Fun Fact, Journey's drummer Steve Smith played the drums on this album

 

ETA: A correction, according to Heaven co-writer Jim Vallance, they were asked to write the song for the movie A Night In Heaven. From jimvallance.com (thanks to the internet archive)

"In 1983 Bryan and I were asked to write a song for the film "A Night In Heaven" starring Lesley Ann Warren. It was a dreadful film that flopped at the box office. The soundtrack album, which included our song "Heaven", suffered a similar fate.

Very few people saw the movie, and even fewer purchased the soundtrack album, so for all intents and purposes "Heaven" was still a "new" song. Regardless, Bryan didn't think it was suitable for "Reckless", the album he was then recording. His decision may have been partly influenced by producer Jimmy Iovine, who Bryan was using as a "sounding board" at the time. I'm not sure who changed Bryan's mind, but at the very last moment he decided to include "Heaven" on "Reckless". It emerged as the album's flagship single, eventually reaching the top of the US and Canadian charts in the summer of 1985"

[RyanSz 3140]

18 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

I fully admit that this is anecdotal... and it was also about 2005, but I had a good friend who was a stripper and one night she invited me to go with her to her club to see a Chippendale's type show (generic Chippendales...I can't remember their name.) By the time the dudes showed up , very late, the place was PACKED with ladies who were well on their way to being drunk AF. There were only 4 or 5 guys performing, and yes they wore themed costumes (this seems to be a feature of male dance reviews since it is not as "every day" as women's strip clubs are and by definition are a bit more theatrical... and to be fair lady strippers wear themed costumes too... it's just not the rule.)

ANYHOO - the whole point of this post is that - yes - the male dancers have a much different party-line when it comes to touching. In most strip clubs around the US you do NOT touch the female strippers end of story. Male dancers do not seem to have this rule (at least these dancers at this time). I was groped, touched, and my hands were placed on the dancer's bodies by the dancers themselves... many times. If you had dollar bills they let you do all the touching you want. As they went through the crowd it was a veritable free for all. I do not remember a lot of kissing, but I do believe it happened. It was insane... in my memory it was very much similar to the scenes in this movie where the ladies just lost their minds. Also keep in mind that almost every time I have ever seen a male stripper, they do not get to down to the Fully Monty as they say... there's always a tinier banana hammock underneath every layer of clothing...like a filthy russian nesting doll.

NOW - it probably goes without saying - this was pre "me too" and I wonder if the Chippendale culture hasn't changed quite a bit. I can only imagine that the dancers touching the female patrons would be verboten these days... maybe the patrons have to sign a consent form?

In conclusion - do I believe this this movie is accurate to early 80s male stripper culture? Oh yes I do.

 

PS. I was so happy that Paul mentioned the strip club scene in Mr. Mom, which is one of my favorite movies and I recognized its similarity to Rick's stripping scene instantly. This is the best clip I could find, but it's a hilarious companion to this movie... the stripper in this one is into Michael Keaton.

 

So apparently the theme of a more "anything goes" policy at male strip clubs is prevalent enough that there are a few adult sites using it as a theme, some even actual Magic Mike-esque companies that film their work at private bachelorette parties. Now while the phrase "reality porn" sort of died about a decade ago when film technology got better and the companies started to admit using actual adult film actresses, this genre seems to be the one that people still question if it isn't just real and not actually scripted, simply because it's such a thing at the actual clubs. The biggest of these type of sites, Dancing Bear, did finally get revealed to be staged as some of the extras in one scene admitted that they were paid 50-100 bucks to sit around, drink, and watch the scene being filmed, but it took years for even that to come out to the point that there were some articles online trying to research the reality of the scenes and still not coming up with anything concrete.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 10/14/2018 at 10:04 AM, The_Triple_Lindy said:

As a straight male, I've long advocated for more dick in movies. It just always takes me out of it to see the lengths a movie will go to keep men's junk covered up while putting women's bodies on full display ... legs, shadows, cleverly placed foreground objects, L-shaped bedsheets, etc. So I applaud this movie for its schlongitude, although I think if you had the balls (ahem) to put a dick in your movie, you should also have the balls to have the genitals align during the sex scenes ... LAW is up near his belly button.

Also, as a white male, I love being barefoot. I thought it was just because it is more comfortable to be out of shoes ... I didn't know it was a racial predisposition. My daughter also loves it ... she asks to take her shoes and socks off first thing when we get home. I hate to think I've trained her to be a stereotype.

EDIT: This is my 500th post! I think this is the perfect way to celebrate. The human body is beautiful, people. Shed your hangups!

Congratulations on your 500th post! 

I think you might enjoy this plea from fellow straight man who wants more dicks in stuff Kevin Bacon

#Freethebacon

[taylor anne photo 11311]

On 10/14/2018 at 9:04 AM, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Also, as a white male, I love being barefoot. I thought it was just because it is more comfortable to be out of shoes ... I didn't know it was a racial predisposition. My daughter also loves it ... she asks to take her shoes and socks off first thing when we get home. I hate to think I've trained her to be a stereotype.

In the home is TOTALLY different than outside the home. My mom would hate it if I would wait to take my shoes off until I got to my room because I would track shit on the carpet. Plus there's an amazing episode of Fresh Off The Boat where they judge white people for wearing shoes inside because of all the germs from outside that then get taken throughout the whole house. I think the thing about white people and no shoes is more for outside because I definitely knew some dudes in college that would walk all around campus without any shoes on and I wouldn't be surprised if they needed at least one tetanus shot during their time there.

[RyanSz 3140]

9 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

In the home is TOTALLY different than outside the home. My mom would hate it if I would wait to take my shoes off until I got to my room because I would track shit on the carpet. Plus there's an amazing episode of Fresh Off The Boat where they judge white people for wearing shoes inside because of all the germs from outside that then get taken throughout the whole house. I think the thing about white people and no shoes is more for outside because I definitely knew some dudes in college that would walk all around campus without any shoes on and I wouldn't be surprised if they needed at least one tetanus shot during their time there.

Assume that they looked like this.

 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

On 10/13/2018 at 1:51 AM, RyanSz said:

I'm sure there is something on archive.org or JSTOR, but I don't want to consider the search phrasing I'd have to put together to find what might have been talked about in the show.

 

3 hours ago, hotironskillet said:

I didn't find anything written specifically in Psychology Today but male strip clubs do seem to be a focus of research in the 80s.

Here are 3 articles I found

Male Strippers: Ladies' Night at the Meat Market

Invasion of the Male Strippers: Role Alignment in a Small‐Town Strip Club

Gender Roles, Sexuality, and the Male Strip Show: The Structuring of Sexual Opportunity

 

 

Jesus Christ, there will never a better reason to love you guys than the fact that this stupid movie sent you to goddamn JSTOR to get academic articles about male strip clubs ... Grad School Trip salutes you all. I think I might be in

 

 

 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

2 hours ago, gigitastic said:

Congratulations on your 500th post! 

I think you might enjoy this plea from fellow straight man who wants more dicks in stuff Kevin Bacon

#Freethebacon

In all seriousness, he's dead right about the 50 Shades movies ... the shadows covering him up look spray painted on. Meanwhile, no one could possibly look less interested in being naked for 600 minutes of that franchise than Dakota Johnson, and she's a trooper about it the whole way through. Kevin Bacon as Christian Grey would've been 1000% more watchable.

1 hour ago, taylorannephoto said:

In the home is TOTALLY different than outside the home. My mom would hate it if I would wait to take my shoes off until I got to my room because I would track shit on the carpet. Plus there's an amazing episode of Fresh Off The Boat where they judge white people for wearing shoes inside because of all the germs from outside that then get taken throughout the whole house. I think the thing about white people and no shoes is more for outside because I definitely knew some dudes in college that would walk all around campus without any shoes on and I wouldn't be surprised if they needed at least one tetanus shot during their time there.

So ... I live in an big condo complex. Does it count as "the home" when I go to the community recycling bins or run out to grab something out of the car? Do I have to wear shoes to go to community pool?

I await your ruling.

[PollyDarton 1807]

Strangely enough- I never realized how similar Kevin Bacon and Bryan Adams looked... has anyone ever seen them in the same room together?