Episode 207 - Dragon Blade (w/ Daniel Radcliffe, Erin Darke)

[Cam Bert 8145]

I think the biggest problem with this movie is simply not understanding what the Silk Road was. The history of the silk road is hundreds of year long and this movie take place about 200 years into it. A quick and dirty summary of the whole thing is China was kinda closed off until the Han Dynasty. They sent out people to deal with nomads, they started encountering other nations who had horses that were better than Chinese horses, the Han Dynasty opened trading up with the west in an exchange of good, culture and knowledge. In fact the "silk road" was not a singular road but rather a series of routes of trade from Turkey all the way to Korea. It was loved by everyone. It brought silk to the west and horses to the east along with a bunch of other goods and religion. It ended hundred of years later because the Ottoman empire in Turkey closed their boarders and maritime trade took over.

In Dragon Blade Adrien Brody's character reveals he didn't want the child emperor but rather to seek control of the silk road. This makes no sense. It is thousands of miles long. If he gain control of one point of it he'd upset China and the Roman empire. He could collect a tax from traders going through his "city" but that's about it. There was no way to control it and if he did it'd be a small section for a short time. If he took over the route and caused problems it would just end the route like it had in the past. It was a no win scenario for him.

[Robert Denby 103]

7 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

I think the biggest problem with this movie is simply not understanding what the Silk Road was. The history of the silk road is hundreds of year long and this movie take place about 200 years into it. A quick and dirty summary of the whole thing is China was kinda closed off until the Han Dynasty. They sent out people to deal with nomads, they started encountering other nations who had horses that were better than Chinese horses, the Han Dynasty opened trading up with the west in an exchange of good, culture and knowledge. In fact the "silk road" was not a singular road but rather a series of routes of trade from Turkey all the way to Korea. It was loved by everyone. It brought silk to the west and horses to the east along with a bunch of other goods and religion. It ended hundred of years later because the Ottoman empire in Turkey closed their boarders and maritime trade took over.

In Dragon Blade Adrien Brody's character reveals he didn't want the child emperor but rather to seek control of the silk road. This makes no sense. It is thousands of miles long. If he gain control of one point of it he's upset China and the Roman empire. He could collect a tax from traders going through his "city" but that's about it. There was no way to control it and if he did it'd be a small section for a short time. If he took over the route and caused problems it would just end the route like it had in the past. It was a no win scenario for him.

Was Adrian Brody's character trying to kill the little kid because he was heir to the Roman Empire? I admit I was totally confused by just about everyone's motivations.

[Robert Denby 103]

15 hours ago, Doctor Suessicide said:

About that, I was annoyed by the quality of the slow-mo. Was it just my copy, or did it seem like they shot the movie at too low of a framerate to produce smooth motion?

I rented it on my PS4, and it had the choppy slow motion. I assumed it was an artistic decision, although after seeing the whole movie, I can't be sure it wasn't incompetence.

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

I found not only was the slow motion particularly awful, I felt like some scenes looked like they were straight out of the room. Maybe it was bad lighting, but some of the scenes looked like they were part of a film student project. Also, the more I read about  what Dragon Blade was about, the less I understand it. 

Quick point of correction/clarification: When Jackie Chan is about to shoot John Cusack, and Cusack says "Take me home." My interpretation of that was him asking to be killed. "Home" is death or the afterlife. I don't think he was actually asking to be brought back home, unless he was asking Chan to return his body to Rome.  Awful line, either way. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

Quick point of correction/clarification: When Jackie Chan is about to shoot John Cusack, and Cusack says "Take me home." My interpretation of that was him asking to be killed. "Home" is death or the afterlife. I don't think he was actually asking to be brought back home, unless he was asking Chan to return his body to Rome.  Awful line, either way. 

Were they confused by that line? I must have missed that. But, yeah, 100%, he’s asking to be mercy killed. He’s been hanging there crucified, blind and bleeding, for what appears to be days. Furthermore, if Brody went the traditional crucifixion route, which is likely, he would have also broken Cusack’s legs. This would be more painful and would have expedited death by asphyxiation. And, considering Brody is portrayed as one of those cruel and psychotic Romans in the vein of Caligula, there’s also a very good chance that he got even more exotic and shoved a stick up Cusack’s dick - something that has been reported as a thing that happened to some crucifixion victims.

So, like, I get they thought it lame that Chan didn’t put more effort into saving Cusack, but honestly, there’s not much he could have done for him. Homeboy was already dead.

 

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

3 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

Were they confused by that line?

I remember hearing the crew say something like, "take him home? He doesn't know where he is. He's blind!"

[RyanSz 3140]

On 2/16/2019 at 7:47 AM, grudlian. said:

Not to necessarily defend this movie or John Cusack's performance, but I think I can at least explain it.

They mention in the show the movie made $121 million but it only made $74 thousand in the US. So, I speculate this movie was never meant to be seen outside of China.

Part of that means that there's simply cultural stuff that doesn't translate to Americans. Chinese audiences might simply want a different experience than what we're looking for. Anyone who has dug deep into foreign film has probably run into a movie that was a smash in its home country but simply doesn't work in the US due to different expectations (I'm sure Cam Bert can give us examples of Japanese movies). So, does anyone know how this did critically in China? Was this Chinese Transformers 2 or Chinese Mad Max Fury Road?

But a movie never being seen outside of China might explain John Cusack's lazy performance and accent. There are lots of celebrities who do commercials or bad movies in foreign countries because it's easy money that doesn't ruin their reputation in Hollywood. 

I know I can't pick up accents in a foreign language and I suspect Chinese audiences can't tell a Chicago accent from what Italian accent Cusack could have put on. So, no real need to do an accent if no one in the intended audience will even notice.

Case in point:

On 2/16/2019 at 6:25 PM, grudlian. said:

When Great Wall came out, Matt Damon got a lot of shit for this Chinese movie being whitewashed. I remember articles at the time saying that getting any big American Hollywood star to be in a Chinese movie for Chinese audiences kind of legitimized the movie to a degree. It wasn't that Matt Damon injected himself into this; it's that Chinese audiences thought that was cool.

I'm not sure American audiences have a cultural equivalent. Stunt casting an international star in an American movie typically only works for international audiences or for 1% of Americans.

What was interesting about Great Wall is that Damon and his partners in that movie really are playing second fiddle to the Chinese actors and what they are trying to do, but to get a wide release for a monster movie set in Ancient China with a 99% cast along with a 150 million dollar budget, the director went with a huge name action star to play the English foil to his female lead who was also amazing for the role given to her, in an overly ludicrous film to begin with.

On 2/17/2019 at 10:02 AM, Cameron H. said:

First of all, I just wanted to say that I thought Erin and Daniel were fantastic guests! I loved the energy they brought, and I really hope that they can be brought back sometime in the future.

In defense of John Cusack's accent work, or lack thereof, I have to admit that I was totally cool with it. The movie had already made the decision that English was going to equal Roman/Latin, but back then, just because someone was "Roman," didn't necessarily mean that they were "from Rome." The Roman Empire stretched from the Portugal to the Middle East and from the British Isles to Africa. Once a culture was conquered by the Romans, they weren't expected to completely abandon their native language, so I'm sure that a pure "Roman accent" would be pretty hard to pin down. I mean, how many accents are there in the America? Hell, accents can change within the same state.

So, maybe, in the world of Dragon Blade, to show a difference in class, Roman's born in Rome - like Brody's character - have English accents, while Roman's born in Gaul or some shit have a more Chicagoan, every man type of flavor.

The fact that they all sing in Latin still makes no fucking sense though...   

As someone who studied linguistics and language for my degree I think the hard thing when it comes to doing Roman characters is that there really isn't a "Roman accent" that people can point at and go "oh yeah that's it." I mean when you say things like British, Italian, Spanish, we all have a strong idea of what that sounds like, but not for Roman for the reasons you stated. Fuck for all we know, Cusack was nailing a Roman accent.

On 2/17/2019 at 12:51 PM, Cameron H. said:

The gang seemed confused by the idea of massive armies sending out a champion to fight a battle for them. Daniel concedes that this probably happened, but everyone agreed that it probably didn't happen until later in history. First of all, I don't feel like the idea that each side would send out a champion is really all that crazy. The rationale being: if our very best guy can beat your very best guy, then ultimately, we'd would probably win the battle anyway, so why bother with all the bloodshed? 

As far as it not happening until later in history, according to Judeo-Christian history, the story of David and Goliath (perhaps the most famous example of this kind of thing) was said to have occurred around 1025 B.C. - approximately 975 years before the events of this film. Whether or not you believe in David and Goliath as historical fact, it would have been a story circulating for almost a millennium. To me, that at least suggests that the idea of sending out a Champion to fight a proxy battle for your army wasn’t something that would be completely unheard of at the time.

They did the same thing in the opening scene of Troy where the kings agreed to send their "champions" forward to battle one another in order to save themselves the bloodshed, time, and loss of resources. At a glance it makes sense for back then as nations would at times be left in unsecured states when large swaths of their armies were off at war, so a king would want to end the conflict as quickly as possible to get back to keeping what was his his. Now with how advanced militaries have become, it's no longer a viable option a nation really doesn't ever become fully unsecured and transportation is so much more advanced that large numbers of troops can be moved quickly in a shorter amount of time. There was a good TV movie in the 70s starring Darren McGavin called The Challenge that had a premise of America and China agreeing to a "surrogate war" with their two best soldiers in order to lay claim to a fallen orbital platform. Yet even in that both sides cheat and send other soldiers after they think their guy can't win.

[Cam Bert 8145]

9 hours ago, Robert Denby said:

Was Adrian Brody's character trying to kill the little kid because he was heir to the Roman Empire? I admit I was totally confused by just about everyone's motivations.

The kid is a bit of a MacGuffin. He admits that hunting down the kid was merely an excuse to enter China and the silk road. At least that's what I recall.

[Cam Bert 8145]

4 hours ago, RyanSz said:

Case in point:

 

I loved these commercials and every so often a new one will pop up. What's weird is in Japan a celebrity appearing in a commercial is not a bad or uncommon thing. Scarlet Johanson was the spokesperson for Lux cosmetics, George Clooney was for Nescafe, Brad Pitt hocked Levis I believe at some point. A large majority of Japanese commercials feature Japanese celebrities. From A list actors and actresses to pop stars to comedians, famous people appear in commercials all the time. I would hazard to say they appear in a majority of them. It is not seen as odd here as it is in the west. It's like Super Bowl spots year round. You're not selling out by doing the commercial. In fact a lot of companies insist on getting big names for the ads because it creates a level of trust and belief in the product. "Hey if this famous person is willing to talk about it, it must be good" type attitude.

[grudlian. 4725]

4 hours ago, RyanSz said:

As someone who studied linguistics and language for my degree I think the hard thing when it comes to doing Roman characters is that there really isn't a "Roman accent" that people can point at and go "oh yeah that's it." I mean when you say things like British, Italian, Spanish, we all have a strong idea of what that sounds like, but not for Roman for the reasons you stated. Fuck for all we know, Cusack was nailing a Roman accent.

For Gangs Of New York, I saw something where they had to make up Daniel Day Lewis' accent because we genuinely don't know how people sounded then. They can do some educated speculation. There might be recordings from people in the area who were alive at the time or written descriptions. It would be inaccurate to have Bill The Butcher speak with a modern Brooklyn accent in the 1860s. If we have to speculate how people sounded 150 years ago, 2000 years is a real shot in the dark. We don't even know definitively what Latin sounded like. We certainly aren't going to know the accent people used to speak it.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

On 2/17/2019 at 1:02 PM, Cameron H. said:

First of all, I just wanted to say that I thought Erin and Daniel were fantastic guests! I loved the energy they brought, and I really hope that they can be brought back sometime in the future.

In defense of John Cusack's accent work, or lack thereof, I have to admit that I was totally cool with it. The movie had already made the decision that English was going to equal Roman/Latin, but back then, just because someone was "Roman," didn't necessarily mean that they were "from Rome." The Roman Empire stretched from the Portugal to the Middle East and from the British Isles to Africa. Once a culture was conquered by the Romans, they weren't expected to completely abandon their native language, so I'm sure that a pure "Roman accent" would be pretty hard to pin down. I mean, how many accents are there in the America? Hell, accents can change within the same state.

So, maybe, in the world of Dragon Blade, to show a difference in class, Roman's born in Rome - like Brody's character - have English accents, while Roman's born in Gaul or some shit have a more Chicagoan, every man type of flavor.

The fact that they all sing in Latin still makes no fucking sense though...   

true but I don't remember the Romans conquering Lake Michigan or any cities on it.

[IRONicmerMAN 391]

On 2/15/2019 at 4:01 PM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

Was Jason a big fan of the HP movies? I thought he listened to the audiobooks? Anyway, I've weirded myself out that I guessed who the guest was last week. I'm concerned that I know more about Daniel than I thought I did. Can I be unintentionally stalking him? What does that say about me? Am I okay? Should I lay down?

So far my big take away is that I like Erin Darke.

I don't know if Jason watched the movies, but I saw in a Vanity Fair interview that he has listened to the audiobooks.

Have you ever gone on a road trip like this yourself?

There were years where I lived in New York but would come out to L.A. for pilot season for two and a half or three months, and I would drive every year. I’m trying to think of any good, weird stories. Honestly, most of them are just, like, me in the middle of the night listening to the Harry Potter audiobooks narrated by Jim Daleand just, like, openly weeping. And that’s not at all a joke [Laughs] I think people picture me driving cross-country as if I’m one of my characters, stopping at strip clubs and getting into bar fights. But it’s so much more likely that I would be like driving late into the night listening to Harry Potter and crying.

[Cameron H. 23786]

38 minutes ago, IRONicmerMAN said:

I don't know if Jason watched the movies, but I saw in a Vanity Fair interview that he has listened to the audiobooks.

Have you ever gone on a road trip like this yourself?

There were years where I lived in New York but would come out to L.A. for pilot season for two and a half or three months, and I would drive every year. I’m trying to think of any good, weird stories. Honestly, most of them are just, like, me in the middle of the night listening to the Harry Potter audiobooks narrated by Jim Daleand just, like, openly weeping. And that’s not at all a joke [Laughs] I think people picture me driving cross-country as if I’m one of my characters, stopping at strip clubs and getting into bar fights. But it’s so much more likely that I would be like driving late into the night listening to Harry Potter and crying.

I just want to say, the Jim Dale narrated series is pretty great. He does a phenomenal job.

[ML Kennedy 5]

After this, I just keep thinking that maybe there is a movie with Joan Cusack and Jet Li out there. Or possibly Ann Cusack and Tony Jaa.

 

[WatchOutForSnakes 807]

13 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

I loved these commercials and every so often a new one will pop up. What's weird is in Japan a celebrity appearing in a commercial is not a bad or uncommon thing. Scarlet Johanson was the spokesperson for Lux cosmetics, George Clooney was for Nescafe, Brad Pitt hocked Levis I believe at some point. A large majority of Japanese commercials feature Japanese celebrities. From A list actors and actresses to pop stars to comedians, famous people appear in commercials all the time. I would hazard to say they appear in a majority of them. It is not seen as odd here as it is in the west. It's like Super Bowl spots year round. You're not selling out by doing the commercial. In fact a lot of companies insist on getting big names for the ads because it creates a level of trust and belief in the product. "Hey if this famous person is willing to talk about it, it must be good" type attitude.

Wasn't this the entire premise of Lost In Translation?

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

15 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

I loved these commercials and every so often a new one will pop up. What's weird is in Japan a celebrity appearing in a commercial is not a bad or uncommon thing. Scarlet Johanson was the spokesperson for Lux cosmetics, George Clooney was for Nescafe, Brad Pitt hocked Levis I believe at some point. A large majority of Japanese commercials feature Japanese celebrities. From A list actors and actresses to pop stars to comedians, famous people appear in commercials all the time. I would hazard to say they appear in a majority of them. It is not seen as odd here as it is in the west. It's like Super Bowl spots year round. You're not selling out by doing the commercial. In fact a lot of companies insist on getting big names for the ads because it creates a level of trust and belief in the product. "Hey if this famous person is willing to talk about it, it must be good" type attitude.

Though in Clooney's case, this has now made it to American shores.

 

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

Will Ferrell did beer commercials in Sweden.

The Jim Dale audiobooks are very good. But I saw everyone freaking out that Harry Potter was with Jason and I thought, "but maybe Jim Dale is Jason's Harry Potter and Radcliffe is some upstart youngun." Also Jason is in show business so I am sure he knows how to play it cool.

I still want to know if it was Daniel who posted Dragon Blade in our movie recommendations thread (and also, randomly, a theory about the Lake House). IS HE ONE OF US? Did you even ask, Paul? Jesus. Think about us for a change.

The poster was originally "dandandan" and he changed his name after I suggested he might be Daniel Radcliffe. Suspicious? Yes. Am I stalking him? Again, I am not sure.

[Cameron H. 23786]

49 minutes ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

Will Ferrell did beer commercials in Sweden.

The Jim Dale audiobooks are very good. But I saw everyone freaking out that Harry Potter was with Jason and I thought, "but maybe Jim Dale is Jason's Harry Potter and Radcliffe is some upstart youngun." Also Jason is in show business so I am sure he knows how to play it cool.

I still want to know if it was Daniel who posted Dragon Blade in our movie recommendations thread (and also, randomly, a theory about the Lake House). IS HE ONE OF US? Did you even ask, Paul? Jesus. Think about us for a change.

The poster was originally "dandandan" and he changed his name after I suggested he might be Daniel Radcliffe. Suspicious? Yes. Am I stalking him? Again, I am not sure.

Well, now you’ve got me curious...

I checked out his post for The Lake House, and was pleased to discover that, not only was I the only person to like “Dan’s” post, I suggested he should have it submitted to The New Yorker - because it was written in a lovely free verse. Which means, while Elektra may be inadvertently stalking Mr. Radcliffe, he and I obviously share an ineffable, metaphysical connection that none of you plebs can ever even begin to understand. We are bound for one another like Keanu and Sandy-B. Fact.

(And, if it turns out forum Dan isn’t, like, Dan Dan, then that’s cool, too. I’l take any Dan in the storm really. I’ll horde all the Dans.) 

 

[grudlian. 4725]

51 minutes ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I still want to know if it was Daniel who posted Dragon Blade in our movie recommendations thread (and also, randomly, a theory about the Lake House). IS HE ONE OF US? Did you even ask, Paul? Jesus. Think about us for a change.

I've been found out. I've been Harry Potter star Daniel Radcliffe this whole time. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

10 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

I've been found out. I've been Harry Potter star Daniel Radcliffe this whole time. 

[grudlian. 4725]

12 minutes ago, Cameron H. said:

Oh really?

gruDliAN

[Cameron H. 23786]

4 minutes ago, grudlian. said:

Oh really?

gruDliAN

[Cam Bert 8145]

7 hours ago, WatchOutForSnakes said:

Wasn't this the entire premise of Lost In Translation?

I thought it was about what an awful boyfriend Spike Jonez was?

Yes, Bill Murray is selling whiskey in Japan. 

[grudlian. 4725]

7 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I thought it was about what an awful boyfriend Spike Jonez was?

Yes, Bill Murray is selling whiskey in Japan. 

The Bill Murray selling Suntory was based on the Akira Kurosawa and Francis Ford Coppola ads.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

5 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

And, if it turns out forum Dan isn’t, like, Dan Dan, then that’s cool, too. I’l take any Dan in the storm really. I’ll horde all the Dans.) 

You know, I bet it’s just some other guy named Dan and he delights in pretending he is Daniel Radcliffe. It’s a bit. It has very little pay off, but some people are not professional comedians for a reason, right?