Episode 225: Friday the 13th Part VI: Jason Lives: LIVE!

[PollyDarton 1807]

GUYS. I re-watched the movie this afternoon and I'm here to tell you mistake #1.

Do you see what I see?

Thom Mathews who plays Tommy is 6'3". With that information and looking at screenshots, it looks like someone buried Jason a whopping 3 feet underground. That's right guys, Martin, the drunken groundskeeper can squarely be blamed for this entire fiasco. He might be a "damn high school graduate" but I think he must've flunked math and or geometry. Either that or while digging a hole, shitfaced and stumbling, he got to about knee deep and said Fuck it. "Burying this unstoppable, serial killing machine in a shallow, badly sealed grave will never come back to haunt me."

[PollyDarton 1807]

I was surprised to hear Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique as the recurring theme. I'm sure many of you recognize it?

The part that was used in the movie is it's most famous movement (Dream of a Witches Sabbath). It starts at about 46:30 in the above video.

Some of you guys may know this piece of music better from the Julia Robert's 1991 Sleeping with the Enemy... or this little known movie called The Shining.

It seems like a strange choice to use in a 6th installment of a Bogeyman franchise when it was used in arguably the greatest horror movie of all time.

 

[Robert Denby 103]

2 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

GUYS. I re-watched the movie this afternoon and I'm here to tell you mistake #1.

Do you see what I see?

Thom Mathews who plays Tommy is 6'3". With that information and looking at screenshots, it looks like someone buried Jason a whopping 3 feet underground. That's right guys, Martin, the drunken groundskeeper can squarely be blamed for this entire fiasco. He might be a "damn high school graduate" but I think he must've flunked math and or geometry. Either that or while digging a hole, shitfaced and stumbling, he got to about knee deep and said Fuck it. "Burying this unstoppable, serial killing machine in a shallow, badly sealed grave will never come back to haunt me."

Mistake #2- Bringing Arnold Horshack for backup. 

[Cam Bert 8145]

7 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

GUYS. I re-watched the movie this afternoon and I'm here to tell you mistake #1.

Do you see what I see?

Thom Mathews who plays Tommy is 6'3". With that information and looking at screenshots, it looks like someone buried Jason a whopping 3 feet underground. That's right guys, Martin, the drunken groundskeeper can squarely be blamed for this entire fiasco. He might be a "damn high school graduate" but I think he must've flunked math and or geometry. Either that or while digging a hole, shitfaced and stumbling, he got to about knee deep and said Fuck it. "Burying this unstoppable, serial killing machine in a shallow, badly sealed grave will never come back to haunt me."

Further proof of how terrible the gravedigger is at his job, or how drunk he was perhaps, was when he sees that Jason's grave was dug up. First he panics then he notices Horshack's leg sticking out of the coffin and is relieved to find out Jason is still there. Okay, ignoring the obvious fact he should have checked anyway, that's a perfectly normal looking leg and fine clean clothing. Jason was buried like ten years ago. If that really was his corpse, no way his leg or clothes would be in that clean and good of condition. I'm not saying you have the deductive reasoning of a Columbo or Jessica Fletcher, but some common knowledge about your job should be a thing especially when bemoaning that you're a high school graduate who earned your job.

[Cam Bert 8145]

So if we ignore his Town that Feared Sundown look in Friday the 13th part 2  you can say Jason is a simple man who knows what he likes when it comes to fashion. In pretty much every movie he wears a navy work shirt and some navy or gray docker. It's a simple and practical look. Sure every now and again he has some sort of undershirt or adds a khaki jacket but the look is pretty consistent. Yet for some reason, and this movie and this movie only does he decide to accessorize. First he puts on a pair of gloves and this works. He would go on to keep those gloves for the rest of his appearances. It's practical and makes sense. Touching all those dead bodies and welding weapons is hard on the hands and you have to take care of them. However his other decision of adding a tool belt to jazz up his outfit  seems like a questionable idea. I mean it makes sense practically. Just carrying a machete around all day would kill your hand and your grip which you would need later for twisting heads and grabbing people. It would be better to keep it safely affixed around your waist. The downside is it is very hard to take a mass murder seriously when he's wearing a tool belt let alone one that clashes with his colour scheme so much.  It's probably best the tool belt didn't stick around.

[Cameron H. 23786]

39 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

I'm not saying you have the deductive reasoning of a Columbo or Jessica Fletcher,

If I know Jessica Fletcher, by the end of the movie she would have confronted Jason in a room by herself, got him to confess, and convinced him to turn himself in.   

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

If I know Jessica Fletcher, by the end of the movie she would have confronted Jason in a room by herself, got him to confess, and convinced him to turn himself in.   

She would definitely sass out the chief for jumping the gun on Tommy as well. We should kickstart the Friday the 13th/Murder She Wrote crossover I really want to see this now.

[Cameron H. 23786]

2 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

She would definitely sass out the chief for jumping the gun on Tommy as well. We should kickstart the Friday the 13th/Murder She Wrote crossover I really want to see this now.

Most likely, she would first agree with him that Tommy is the most obvious suspect, but would then present all the reasons why he couldn’t possibly be the killer in a way that would allow the sheriff to both save face and allow him to believe that he came to those conclusions himself. (“Certainly, you’ve noticed the lack of blood splatter on Tommy’s clothes. And I don’t need to tell you that beheading three people with a machete requires the kind of upper body strength Tommy clearly doesn’t possess.”)

But, yes, Jessica Fletcher vs Eighties Movie Monsters is definitely a movie series that needs to happen. Angela Lansbury is still kicking. I’m sure she would be game.

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

Most likely, she would first agree with him that Tommy is the most obvious suspect, but would then present all the reasons why he couldn’t possibly be the killer in a way that would allow the sheriff to both save face and allow him to believe that he came to those conclusions himself. (“Certainly, you’ve noticed the lack of blood splatter on Tommy’s clothes. And I don’t need to tell you that beheading three people with a machete requires the kind of upper body strength Tommy clearly doesn’t possess.”)

But, yes, Jessica Fletcher vs Eighties Movie Monsters is definitely a movie series that needs to happen. Angela Lansbury is still kicking. I’m sure she would be game.

As our resident Jessica Fletcher expert, what what eighties movie monster or just any movie monster would be the best pairing with Jessica Fletcher?

I know it's not 80s but I think her staying at the Bates Motel would be very fun.

[Cameron H. 23786]

3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

As our resident Jessica Fletcher expert, what what eighties movie monster or just any movie monster would be the best pairing with Jessica Fletcher?

I know it's not 80s but I think her staying at the Bates Motel would be very fun.

What would be fun about Psycho is I feel like she would be very sympathetic to Norman. I think she would peg the twist almost immediately (while eating sandwiches beneath the taxidermy birds) and would spend the rest of the movie trying to help him.

i think Fletcher vs Freddy would be fun. She deals in logic and he deals in dreams, so I think they have a very natural Batman v Joker dynamic.  

[tomspanks 9039]

I would like to see an AvPvF.  I wanna see if she can out-jog them all.

[Cameron H. 23786]

33 minutes ago, tomspanks said:

I would like to see an AvPvF.  I wanna see if she can out-jog them all.

Jess is an endurance jogger, so I definitely feel like she could out last them if it came down to a cross-country, medium paced jog. I feel like she would find and exploit a Predator’s weaknesses relatively quickly, so she would be spending most of her time learning how to mask her body temp. I’m more concerned about xenomorphs. They tend to be quick and attack in claustrophobic places. Situations where being a strong jogger won’t benefit her very much. Aliens also don’t really have brains, so they aren’t really opponents she can out wit. It would be like playing chess with a lion.

It would be a fantastic movie though

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I didn't watch this movie but I have a confession about the Second Opinions song. I used to think the Boyz II Men remix of Yesterday was the original. So when they were singing, "I had a moment of like "oh it's the Boyz II Men song.. wait. Stop it, Emily." 

 

Anyway. Just wanted to come embarrass myself.

[Cam Bert 8145]

6 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

Jess is an endurance jogger, so I definitely feel like she could out last them if it came down to a cross-country, medium paced jog. I feel like she would find and exploit a Predator’s weaknesses relatively quickly, so she would be spending most of her time learning how to mask her body temp. I’m more concerned about xenomorphs. They tend to be quick and attack in claustrophobic places. Situations where being a strong jogger won’t benefit her very much. Aliens also don’t really have brains, so they aren’t really opponents she can out wit. It would be like playing chess with a lion.

It would be a fantastic movie though

Well in AvP fashion would Jess not team up with the Predator to take down the xenomorphs and then earn their respect? Or does it start that way and then she flips the script on the Predator? Sorry no Billy the Kid gun for you Jess.

[Cameron H. 23786]

6 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Well in AvP fashion would Jess not team up with the Predator to take down the xenomorphs and then earn their respect? Or does it start that way and then she flips the script on the Predator? Sorry no Billy the Kid gun for you Jess.

Oh, she 100% teams up with the Predators. Once Jessica understands their culture, after deciphering ancient hieroglyphics beneath Cabot Cove, she accepts what they are doing and helps them eradicate the xenomorphs - earning herself a badass acid scar in the process. 

Sadly, Sheriff Amos Tupper does not survive...

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

22 hours ago, PollyDarton said:

I was surprised to hear Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique as the recurring theme. I'm sure many of you recognize it?

The part that was used in the movie is it's most famous movement (Dream of a Witches Sabbath). It starts at about 46:30 in the above video.

Some of you guys may know this piece of music better from the Julia Robert's 1991 Sleeping with the Enemy... or this little known movie called The Shining.

It seems like a strange choice to use in a 6th installment of a Bogeyman franchise when it was used in arguably the greatest horror movie of all time.

 

Being someone who sometimes listens to collections of horror movie themes, I'm probably only mildly surprised since I find the Friday the 13th original theme to be very similar to the Psycho theme (one collection had both, and when shuffled, I'd often have a hard time identifying which it was when starting). So it wouldn't be the first time in the series something like that has happened.

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

15 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

So if we ignore his Town that Feared Sundown look in Friday the 13th part 2  you can say Jason is a simple man who knows what he likes when it comes to fashion. In pretty much every movie he wears a navy work shirt and some navy or gray docker. It's a simple and practical look. Sure every now and again he has some sort of undershirt or adds a khaki jacket but the look is pretty consistent. Yet for some reason, and this movie and this movie only does he decide to accessorize. First he puts on a pair of gloves and this works. He would go on to keep those gloves for the rest of his appearances. It's practical and makes sense. Touching all those dead bodies and welding weapons is hard on the hands and you have to take care of them. However his other decision of adding a tool belt to jazz up his outfit  seems like a questionable idea. I mean it makes sense practically. Just carrying a machete around all day would kill your hand and your grip which you would need later for twisting heads and grabbing people. It would be better to keep it safely affixed around your waist. The downside is it is very hard to take a mass murder seriously when he's wearing a tool belt let alone one that clashes with his colour scheme so much.  It's probably best the tool belt didn't stick around.

I'm trying to remember, but didn't he also steal the outfit off of the camper he killed and took the hockey mask from? (in part 3)

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 hour ago, ol' eddy wrecks said:

I'm trying to remember, but didn't he also steal the outfit off of the camper he killed and took the hockey mask from? (in part 3)

He takes the mask from Shelly (prior he wore a sack over his head) but I believe  he was already wearing his workman outfit. Shelly I believe was wearing plaid.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Cam Bert said:

Shelly I believe was wearing plaid.

Thank God!

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

11 hours ago, Cam Bert said:

He takes the mask from Shelly (prior he wore a sack over his head) but I believe  he was already wearing his workman outfit. Shelly I believe was wearing plaid.

Googling, the plaid looks like Shelly's regular clothes. I remembered he had props and costumes - and I think he owned the harpoon Jason shoots at the audience (because part 3 was in 3D - most notable thing I remember from it being in 3D was the eye popping out at the audience in one of Jason's last kills). But it looks like Shelly had hockey pads and at least a jersey (why you'd have that in summer, I can't remember despite only watching the movie a year or two ago).

I think the internet said Jason got his get-up in the supply store where he had his first kills in part 3.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

This was my very first Friday the 13th movie, and boy howdy was I fucking confused all the way through.

I decided immediately after to go ahead and marathon as many as I could for the rest of the night and I made it to Part 3.

I was really confused about the timeline from the get go, but from what I gather (and from what Ryan says on page 1) the original movie wasn't actually set in 1980, the year it was released, but rather 79? And then in Part 2 they mention it being "5 years later" to justify why they would reopen the camp and make it seem like everything happened in a "legend" or what the fuck ever lol. Then Part 3 is literally set the next day after Part 2 but like around the corner on private land called Higgins Haven still on Crystal Lake.

So because I have not seen 4 or 5 I have literally no idea about what year 6 is supposed to be set, but due to the clothes I have to assume it's still the late 80s, which begs the question - how the fuck has no one heard about the Voorhees or the mass amount of murders that has taken place in this ONE TINY area? All of these counselors would seemingly have been alive when the first murders in 1979 took place and they're acting like it's all just some spooky stories that their parents told them. That seems bonkers to me especially considering for a fact that 4, 5, and 6 center around Tommy which means at least the first two groupings of murders happened in these counselor's lifetimes.

I'm hoping to catch 4 and 5 within the next two days because AMC still has them on demand as part of their Fear Fest for Halloween.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

On 10/28/2019 at 6:51 AM, Cam Bert said:

Also when you think about the timeline of the movie it makes less sense because this film doesn't take place in 1986! Part 2 is set two months after the first film, and Parts 3 and 4 follow the day after the previous films. So when Tommy appears as a child in Part 4 that's 1980. In parts 5 and 6 Tommy has now grown up which means this film is suppose to be taking place in 1990! So somehow a kid in a summer camp in 1990 is reading a comic book from 1983? Why? It just doesn't make any sense. Why would that be at the camp? Why would he bring a quarter bin comic to camp if it was his? Why bring or have the second part of a three part story arc? There has to be a secret meaning behind this issue!

I didn't see this before I made my timeline comment, but Cam Bert, you are wrong! 

They say while around the campfire in Part 2 that the original killings in the first movie were 5 years prior! I know because I was heavily watching to see if they ever date this because I was like okay what the fuck this was only a year ago and they're acting like people weren't legit just murdered here! And if the last remaining survivor suddenly was also murdered then I would think they would never open the camp! But then the main dude starts telling "the legend" and he mentions that Alice goes missing after 2 months and that all happened 5 years ago so no one really knows what actually happened to her.

Plus the "Jason Expert" got it wrong because it was that same campfire story that sets up that Jason never actually died in that lake and he lived on his own for those ~25 years turning into "some kind of creature." 

But this all makes your timeline theory all the more confounding cause that would set Part 6 in 1995 at least and literally none of this makes any kind of sense if this is supposed to be set in the same year as Clueless lol. I mean the clothes and hairstyles and music alone!

[Cam Bert 8145]

1 hour ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

I didn't see this before I made my timeline comment, but Cam Bert, you are wrong! 

They say while around the campfire in Part 2 that the original killings in the first movie were 5 years prior! I know because I was heavily watching to see if they ever date this because I was like okay what the fuck this was only a year ago and they're acting like people weren't legit just murdered here! And if the last remaining survivor suddenly was also murdered then I would think they would never open the camp! But then the main dude starts telling "the legend" and he mentions that Alice goes missing after 2 months and that all happened 5 years ago so no one really knows what actually happened to her.

Plus the "Jason Expert" got it wrong because it was that same campfire story that sets up that Jason never actually died in that lake and he lived on his own for those ~25 years turning into "some kind of creature." 

But this all makes your timeline theory all the more confounding cause that would set Part 6 in 1995 at least and literally none of this makes any kind of sense if this is supposed to be set in the same year as Clueless lol. I mean the clothes and hairstyles and music alone!

Yes you're right. Admittedly I haven't re-watched these movies in years and I just remember the time jump at the start leading to the death of the original final girl. I forget that there was yet another time jump after that. When you put this in the context of 1995 I guess Crystal Lake is one of those small backwoods type towns that's so far removed from the big city and big city life that time just is a little slower there and they don't keep up on trends.

Also I'm glad this movie has created some new Friday the 13th fans.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

3 minutes ago, Cam Bert said:

Yes you're right. Admittedly I haven't re-watched these movies in years and I just remember the time jump at the start leading to the death of the original final girl. I forget that there was yet another time jump after that. When you put this in the context of 1995 I guess Crystal Lake is one of those small backwoods type towns that's so far removed from the big city and big city life that time just is a little slower there and they don't keep up on trends.

Also I'm glad this movie has created some new Friday the 13th fans.

They also do a terrible job of setting it up. In the first one they tell you each time there is a time jump, so in the beginning it says "1958" and then when it jumps it says "Present Day," which is also why I believed it was set in 1980 since that's when it was released.

But in Part 2 they don't do that at all!

Also... "fan" is a strong word for me 

[ol' eddy wrecks 212]

3 hours ago, tay-loe anne photo said:

how the fuck has no one heard about the Voorhees or the mass amount of murders that has taken place in this ONE TINY area? All of these counselors would seemingly have been alive when the first murders in 1979 took place and they're acting like it's all just some spooky stories that their parents told them. That seems bonkers to me especially considering for a fact that 4, 5, and 6 center around Tommy which means at least the first two groupings of murders happened in these counselor's lifetimes.

I seem to recall Roger Ebert asking a very similar question ("if people keep getting killed at this lake, why do people keep sending their kids there?") in a review when I was a tween.  Probably for part 6 or part 7.  Which makes me think the answer is probably the time-honored, worst-answer, "because we need the 'plot' to happen."

It's been 9 years since I've seen part 2.  I vaguely remember there being a line in there about them ret-conning him actually not dying - the whole jumping out of the lake in the first one was always a confusing bit of narrative.  But so many later movies in the series still work with the assumption that he died in that lake (e.g. part 8, Freddy vs Jason both coming to mind).  It's been decades since I've seen Part 9.  If you make it to that point though, I think that one will make the coherency of the series somehow even more confusing.  Though maybe it actually does tie everything together.  Probably not though.  The only one I don't know if I've ever seen is part 7 (and I haven't seen Jason X, which doesn't seem... canonical.  Though that's a weird phrase to use with this series).