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Minor Corrections or Omissions: Correction: At one point Paul (AKA John) says something about putting away childish things. He then attributes the quote to Maya Angelou while admitting that might not be it. He's actually quoting Paul's Letter to the Corinthians Chapter 13 verse 11. It's often used at weddings. Chapter 13 contains that whole "Love is Patient, Love is Kind" thing. John, you were thinking of this: "When I was a child, I spoke as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child; but when I became a man, I put away childish things." Omission: I think some people in the boards already alluded to it, but my friend Sarah wanted me to post how disappointed she was that only Jason seemed to kind of know Rik Mayall. The idea that he was some Robin Williams knock off was offensive to her (she's British and loves the Young Ones). To quote her, he's "kind of a big deal." His wikipedia page says he was one of the pioneers of alt-comedy. Everybody has misses in their career, but he's allegedly pretty great (I don't know for sure; posting for a friend). Omission: It would have been fun to relive the last time the hosts were this divided. Remember "The Odd Life of Timothy Green?" I did not think that was that bad (along with Jason and the guest). Paul and June hated it. But we all have our movies we love. I still think they should not have done Congo. That diamond-powered laser totally adds up. And I'll admit while I hated this movie, Jason and June almost talked me into thinking it had good intentions. I still intend on ordering a Team Sanity shirt for me and a Team Fred shirt for my friend. Though I agree the mom was a piece of shit.

So has anyone else watched these deleted and alternate scenes? There is some very interesting and revealing stuff. Highlights include: A different meet cute scene between Lizzie and Mickey at a bank (after she discovers that Charles has already removed her name from his bank account) Lizzie meeting Mickey’s daughter during the meet cute One of the imaginary friends eating the psychiatrist’s table More upskirt peeping in the ladies’ room at the wine tasting party And most important of all - a scene where Fred takes Lizzie to a place where all the imaginary friends live that VERY much resembles Monsters Inc. And while they are there a “boss” says on a loudspeaker that Fred needs to report to his next child immediately.

I'm Team Sanity because I think Fred is a real individual separate from Elizabeth.I think that the invisible friends are real magical beings who are supposed to help children. I think he was trapped in the Jack in the box for years and couldn't move on to another child, which he eventually does. I also think think that Fred is an awful friend and a total asshole. I think he was somewhat helpful when Elizabeth was a child and he let her find an outlet for her rage and taught her the value of rebellion but I also think he endangered her and encouraged her to do things that she shouldn't simply for the thrill of destruction and chaos. as Elizabeth's adult friend he's fucking terrible. He hurts her physically and emotionally, hurts or tried to hurt those who she loves and who love her back ( Carrie Fisher and Mickey), tries to ruin new relationships with people she really likes ( Mickey), absolutely will not listen to her when she says no or asks him to stop , frankly I don't think that Fred would know consent if it smashed his head into a fridge door. I categorically do not approve of Charles. He's a useless, abusive, dull witted, boring fuckboy who most likely only fucks in missionary ( maybe he lets his partner on top of he's feeling spicy) who only thinks of himself and if he wasn't married probably would have his mom do his laundry because there's no way that entitled fuckwit has ever done anything of value in the home. Or anywhere for that matter. Guaranteed both Annabella and Elizabeth are faking their orgasms. I also agree that the mother is abusive. I don't think she's a good mother per say but having lived a similar experience I can say I understand her and I have a little empathy for her. Add for the nurse it's not uncommon to have to restrain a patient. I don't think that what she said was called for though. If Elizabeth was in need of that level of care she should have been in inpatient.

So out curiosity what's your Drop Dead Fred of the movies we have covered or a movie that we should cover! Mine is Spice World. I fully think it's crazy but it's a FUN crazy that they seemed to hate. I don't know if it's because I loved it so much as a child but I was really disappointed by how they saw the movie. Fun fact I had a Spice Girls birthday complete with Spice Girls cups, plates, napkins, WRAPPING PAPER... the whole works. I got Posh and Baby Spice barbies as a gift I seem to recall.

So i'm a bit biased towards phoebe cates younger version. I know she gets up to questionable antics with Fred but to be fair, they are just exaggerated examples of what a small energetic child might get up to. You can ask my parents how much of a bad example Home Alone was on me as a child in terms of the interest in boobytraps it gave me. I know you think Fred is a terrible friend as an adult, because to be fair he is in a lot of cases. But I also think that all of the insane and rude things Fred says to her as an adult are absolutely things that she might internally feel about herself deep down without being able to admit it. When he's teasing her mother or taunting her about believing his note, I can absolutely see her saying those same things to herself. Even the scene where he embarrasses her at the party, she's at a ridiculously pretentious party to try and win back her terrible husband which he is trying to with all his effort to prevent. The movie even ends with her accepting that the chaos and excitement that Fred creates in her life is something she missed in her life and her personality. I also think that the movie sets up that Fred is very hurt at both being locked away for decades but also to see that Lizzie has become a shade of what she was as a child and how much her mother and Charles have combined to defeat her emotionally. And its a very lazy aside they did but they did have a scene where they showed that Carrie Fisher was actually very excited that her boat was sunk because she collected a ton of insurance from it. And while Fred might have not been into Mickey its not like his opinions or antics in the restaurant changed her feelings towards him or negatively affected their relationship. I think it was meant to show how true a friend Mickey actually was. In a time where she feels at her most out of control, he tells her how much he loves the freedom in how she acts and how much it reminds him of her when she was a child and at her happiest. And I think the movie does a fairly good job of showing that Lizzies life was in disarray before Fred came back into her life, she'd just lost her job, she was in a dead end marriage that she was desperate to save despite how obviously bad Charles was for her. And she just seemed generally sad and emotionless. It was when Fred showed back up and started taunting her mother that she started to show signs of life again. I think her first laugh in the movie is Fred's "Cobwebs" line.

There's usually an element of silly playfulness though. What's playful about making someone feel wanted and loved only to realize they aren't?

100% Team Fred. Blows my mind that Paul and Casey were defending the mother who was clearly awful, for all the reasons Jason, June listed. She constantly undermined her daughter, attacked her self confidence, blamed her for her marriage to an older philandering and emotionally abusive husband failing etc. But I think another aspect that I think they tried to make clear was that her mother decorated that house not to be lived in by a child. More importantly not her child. Her daughter has clearly always been a bit rambunctious and their house is still essentially a museum that they live in. Her mom has never been interested in learning about who her daughter actually is, or at all altering her life or perspective to connect with her daughter in any meaningful way. Dad is also clearly a jerk for walking out on his daughter, which I think they also used as a way to show why she was so desperate to make her marriage work despite how awful Tim Matheson was. Matheson also seemed like a clear and disturbing stand in for her father who walked out on her. If you're Team Sanity you have to understand you're on the side of a domineering mother, creepy Tim Matheson, Annabella, and a nurse who threatened her ward with physical violence.

Interesting enough about the alternate ending. Everything you say is 100% accurate, but it doesn't discount that the movie goes out of its way to show other imaginary friends like Fred. Lizzie cannot see them -- this is a moment where we are completely in Fred's perspective. And in order for Fred to have a perspective, he must exist. Cogito ergo sum. Again, this movie is trying to have its cake and eat it, too. I think everything you describe is what someone, somewhere wanted this movie to be, but then someone else decided to make it a kids' movie and the mental health allegory got ruined. Nevertheless, this is the final product that Hollywood presented us with, and it's ... it's just a mess. The letter scene is a pivotal moment in this debate, because the interpretations of both sides to fit their arguments may equally be valid. If Fred is real, he wrote the letter and tricked Lizzie. If Fred is Lizzie, then Lizzie wrote the letter and sealed it in an envelope, opened and read it at a later time, responded to it as though she didn't write it, gets excited by it and shows it to others, then rushes over to meet the person who she tricked herself into thinking wrote it, and was heartbroken when he wasn't there because the person who wrote the letter was really herself. Now, I'm not saying the second option isn't valid. But the work it takes to rationalize this is considerable. This is the behavior of someone who is completely untethered. She's not the kind of character to build a kids' movie around.

I saw this on IMDb, and I’m not sure if Team Sanity was trying to suppress to this to strengthen their argument (especially considering some IMDb Trivia was read during the episode), but I think it’s worth posting this: “There's an alternate ending where Lizzie is at Mickey's house reading his daughter Natalie a bedtime story. And after a few minutes, Natalie comes out of her room where she tells both Lizzie and Mickey that her "imaginary friend" ripped up her teddy bear. Lizzie asks Natalie the name of her imaginary friend. Natalie reveals that her imaginary friend's name is Drop Dead Fred. The scene ends with a shot of a pop-up book opening revealing a pop-up illustration of Drop Dead Fred with a voice over of Fred saying "Playtime". When the film was screened for a test audience, the audience hated the ending because they hated the idea of Fred disappearing forever. This prompted New Line Cinema to cut the ending and reshoot it where Fred is seen with Natalie pulling a prank on Natalie's babysitter. The original ending was included as an extra on the 25th anniversary Blu-ray.” So, really we can blame test audiences for the muddled ending - which is something we all agree was poorly handled. It seems clear to me that Drop Dead Fred was always written and meant to be a manifestation of Liz’s psyche. Had the movie ended as originally intended, not only would it have explicitly shown Liz’s he was always a part of her, it would also reveal that Drop Dead Fred to be a storybook character! This would have totally explained how she and the little girl could share the same imaginary friend. However, as a proud Team Fred member, I agree that not everything is perfectly done, but I think it does an adequate job of conveying its message. I would like to clarify though, in the up skirt scenes, Liz is 100% projecting Fred. Those two moments are meant to tell us something about how Liz is feeling in those moments and convey two different messages. In the first instance, as Jason said, it was a way of taking her mother down a peg. She knows her mother is being uptight and intransigent and is essentially thinking to herself, “Relax, mom. You really need to get laid.” In the second scene, Liz is struggling against feelings of inadequacy and jealousy. She sees Fonda standing there looking beautiful, and projects Fred as a way to imply a degree of promiscuity on Annabella’s part. It’s a way of helping her cope with an awkward situation. It’s not that she’s any better or worse looking than Fonda, but she certainly feels like Fonda is more desirable than her, and this is her way of taking her down a peg and explaining to herself why that might be.

This movie has it all. Christian Slater, Peter Coyote, Yeardley (Lisa Simpson) Smith, an insane plot revolving around a trashed moped, Helen Slater with Pat Benetar's hair (and a soundtrack to match.) Just watch the trailer. Please do this. Fair is fair! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMzTItRnx4k

Who here needs a pallet cleanser, eh? Better Fred Rhyme -- Drop Dead or Right Said. GO.

Finished the episode. Still 100% Team Fred. Yes, I think she wrote the letter herself. I don’t think she’s completely insane, but after losing her car, job, and philandering husband in one day - plus being forced move back home with her domineering mother - I think she’s definitely suffered a psychotic break. And I think this break is primarily due to the repression she’s suffered since childhood. It’s left her ill-equipped to deal with the turmoil in her life.

It was the chaos and also the humiliation that gave me anxiety. The fact that so much of the humor was based on Lizzie being put into embarrassing or humiliating situations by the daemon limey monkey god. For me, it's why I don't like The Office. All the humor is Michael Scott debasing himself with cringe-worthy lack of self-awareness. Actually, I think DDF and The Office are a shared universe, where all of Michael Scott's bad behavior is being caused by his own Drop Dead Fred.

What was always wild to me about the parents hating me was that their kids, especially after age eleven, were usually the ones wanting to do low-key dangerous stuff, and I was the one who just wanted to keep doing relatively safe kid stuff. I had far off country grandparents as well, and going to visit them was the highlight of every summer vacation. My grandmother always had a stack of new books to give me and there was usually a stray neighbor cat hanging around that I could play with. And lizards, so many lizards to look up at the library when I got home. We only moved the one time though, in the middle of my sophomore year, coincidentally, from a Chicago suburb. I hope you guys have a rad time at the show!

I think Team Sanity sees the movie for what it is, and Team Fred sees it for what it is trying to be. That said, I'm Team Fred. I love a good story about letting out the animal side of the brain. There's a Fred inside everyone, not just every child - a Fred who wants to break out of its shell, throw shit at people, talk about farting, let loose. The film is not only about patriarchy, it is about civilization inhibiting humans from being and doing what they really wish to be. Civilization is a facade. All we're doing is fooling ourselves. We are animals. We're monkeys wearing tuxedos, and we need to be mentally broken to prevent us from tearing the tuxedo off and truly freeing ourselves. This movie is transcendentalist. Jason knows it - he invoked Walt Whitman when he said we contain multitudes.

Uh are we the same person? So many parents hated me! I was also very imaginative and played alone a lot because I also had a hard time making friends . We moved a lot because my mom would get a better job in another pharmaceutical or blood banking company. I think that I only went start to finish in 4 grades without moving. (2,5,6,8th). We've always came back to spend a lot of time with my grandparents who lived far out in the country so I guess in a sense we were an isolated family as well. Thankfully I have always loved to read so I was never that alone and in middle school a girl I originally hated became my friend and we've been best friends ever since. Even though we live in different states ( why must all my friends live elsewhere?!) We talk every day and are going to the Chicago show together! She's new to the podcast and I'm so excited to share this with her.

I think one problem we've run into here is that the *teams* (teams are stupid, btw ... in this board and in most IRL cases) have become cemented by what the cast have said. Specifically, Team Sanity has become the de facto mom apologists just because Paul and Casey defended her, which is dumb. Fred is real, and the mom sucks ... more than one thing can be true. Buuuuuuuut ... I'm going to go out on a limb and defend Polly, the mom. Not to say she's great -- she sucks as a person, generally -- but she is also presented to us as a more complex figure that anyone here gives her credit. She's snobby, materialistic, and generally unpleasant. But then, she has a child who, regardless of Fred's real/figment status, is bringing down large amounts of emotional turmoil and property damage. And let's not forget that, when Fred suggests that they cut the mother's head off, Lizzie is ALL FOR IT. This is, for my money, 100 degrees of magnitude worse if Fred is a figment because that means it's really all just Lizzie wrecking her life and calling for her mom's murder. Plus, if Fred isn't real, it must be Lizzie shouting "Yeah, cut mom's head off" while Polly is in the next fucking room. This is a nightmare scenario for any parent, and if you're already prone to being shitty, then it is really easy to let yourself say something awful to your child, purely out of frustration. Parents are human. My own child has had stints of sleepless nights and bad behavior, and as much as I love my child, there are a few times where I've said to myself, "This kid is ruining my fucking life right now." Selfish? Perhaps, but human. And my child is, generally speaking, the absolute jackpot of kids, so if an angel can bring a generally even-tempered person to curse their existence, imagine what a maniac child like Lizzie could do to a generally contemptible person like her mom. What is really killing me about the Team Fred folks is that, since Team Fred posits that all of Fred's behavior is really Lizzie's, they seem to accept that Lizzie behaves like a complete asshole the entire film, because she's acting this way due to the trauma that she's endured, while being generally unforgiving of anyone else. Assholes like Polly aren't created out of thin air -- she's expressing her own past trauma in her own way. We just don't forgive her for it because her trauma isn't being expressed by a sexy British avatar. That ending, where she tells Lizzie that she'll be lonely if Lizzie leaves -- that's some emotional, heartbreaking stuff if you're willing to see it from a parent's point of view. It doesn't excuse her behavior, but it mitigates her awfulness ever-so slightly, IMHO. ***At this very moment, my child is throwing a tantrum because we're trying to get out the door to go on vacation, and my frustration with her is growing because she's not letting me type a silly post. If she were breaking windows or sinking my house, I might let my tongue run away with me, too. This is the most true statement made on the board so far. The father sees the mother treating Lizzie badly and, rather than removing Lizzie from the situation, he just leaves so that he doesn't have to witness it? Bullshit. If you want to blame anyone for adult Lizzie's regression into childishness, blame the dad.

The villain of this movie is without question Lizzie's father. He thinks Marsha Mason is being a terrible mother so his response is to walk out of Lizzie's life forever? Dude is trash.

Also, -Elizabeth having MAC makeup applied- "Now, Elizabeth, don't worry, all these products are cruelty-free."

If we go with Fred being a manifestation of Elizabeth, I think most of that could be explained by her self-sabotaging, feeling she's not worthy of happiness or love. Pushing away good people and staying with the wrong ones.

I'm surprised this movie hasn't been covered yet lol. Shout out to Pat and the killer theme song for it.

I actually kinda love this movie, but it's absolutely appropriate for the show. Plus June should have a lot to chew on with the feminist themes in the movie. Also, Helen Slater is super hot in it.

Never worked as well as it should have for me.. some superb sets, a really interesting story, more than reasonable acting talent but the promise of the setup never really paid off. To me it always felt like we were seeing the sequel to a really badass movie because the story of a ship travelling to 'hell' and itself being possessed and torturing the crew before finding its way back to our universe seemed like a far more interesting story with potential for effects and action. Instead we got an hour of wondering what happened and little evil going on (with now rather distracting cgi liquid effects) and then 40minutes of chaos telling you all the cool stuff you didn't see. If they can prequel The Thing.. maybe they should do the same here and really make it tie up.

Don't forget the John Lovitz-Jeffery Jones sword fight, the Python Cameo and the Light Grenade!