Titanic

[Cam Bert 8145]

And I don’t think everything in the movie was part of her story. There were way too many private conversations that Rose wasn’t a part of and she didn’t tell the, the part about her sticking her hand in the coat and finding the necklace.

Oh I agree and echo everything my fellow Cameron said, but for me it drives home the point do we even need the framing device? We have all these little moments of things going on in the ship which are all based on recorded events of things that actually happened that are included because of a sense "this is what people know happened so we have to show it." These events have nothing to do with Rose and Jack and more about the actual story of the Titanic itself. Now if those things occur as you're watching the story of the Titanic and Jack and Rose that's fine. However, if you want to include those in the framework of Rose is telling the story about her time on the Titanic then you make those things suspect. I guess the idea is that we're suppose to get so wrapped up in it all that we forget that we're listening to Rose's story. Maybe the assumption is we are taking the events that we all know that happened and adding them into her story. By eliminating the Rose is telling a story aspect the only thing you are really losing is that ending. That said there are ways you could write and do the ending to arrive to the same point of her boarding the ship with Jack in the end. Old Rose telling a story doesn't draw me any more or less than seeing the grand spectacle of it all.

[action52 554]

This movie exhibits Cameron doing what he's really brilliant at: movie magic. Cameron is an absolute genius at making movies that sweep you up and take you for a beautiful ride.

 

When I saw this movie in the theater, I was captivated. It was a event. Because I really felt like I was sitting in the Titanic. Like I was right there, smelling the wood and the sea and the new paint along with them. And the way all the little side characters grab at you and make their moments count... I felt that even more. It made the ship feel alive, like the people were really there. It's not even that I didn't notice the flaws--bad dialogue, characters that were one dimensional stereotypes, ridiculously on-the-nose one liners, cliche predictable love story, and oh my GOD that line about the Picasso painting is horrible...

 

I noticed pretty much all of those things the first time around, but I was just so charmed and grateful to be transported into this world that I remember noticing flaws but thinking to myself, "you know what? I'm still into it." Even though I hated Celine Dion at the time, when that song started at the end I was like "I'm still cool with this, still gonna keep crying." When I got out, I talked to my dad and sister who went with me and we were in a daze at the amazing thing we'd just experienced. I told my girlfriend we had to see it, but for some reason she had decided it was one pop culture phenomenon she was going to miss.

 

Finally, I convinced her to see it on video. But when I watched it in grainy analog on the tiny TV we had, during the day with lots of background noise from outside... it didn't have that magic. I didn't feel like I was transported anywhere, and the cheesy or silly parts stood out even more. My girlfriend turned and asked, "Why did you and everybody say it was so great?" And I said "I don't know."

 

But I do know, now that I think about it. It was that magic. I always thought that was a lot of the reason for the backlash. That gap between seeing it at the theater and seeing it on video was too much. I think that's also why the world went so crazy over Avatar then forgot it six months later.

 

Recently I saw Titanic again on a nice big screen HD TV, in a dark room, in blu-ray, and remembered again why I loved it so much. A lot of the magic came back. Though I don't know if I'll ever be captivated like I was 20 years ago.

 

I do know, though, that however crazy his ideas may be, I'm never gonna bet against James Cameron.

[tomspanks 9039]

No, and I’m mostly joking, but having a character recall another character’s memories or having perfect recall about situations they weren’t present for is the kind of crap we tease HDTGM movies for.

 

[PollyDarton 1807]

I think the backlash is partially due to the dismissal of the frivolous romantic desires of (SOME) teenage girls to be sure, but it is certainly also due to a few other things.

 

1. The sheer juggernaut success of this movie and any movie will naturally come with contrarian dislike (genuine as that dislike may be, there are plenty of people who hated it because of how big it was and how it was just everywhere you looked at that time)

2. That fucking song... that goddamn song was SO incredibly ubiquitous. Sappy ass, shallow, generalized love ballads tend to not have the greatest lasting power. I mean... My Heart Will Go On is pretty much a joke at this point and is rarely used in anyway that isn't riddled with irony. I can only imagine that people would let out a collective groan if it was played in a public venue... short of weddings or Celine live in Vegas?

3. LEO - I think the American film viewing public as a whole does not love wispy teenage heartthrobs and Leo was King of that world in 1997.

 

All that being said - JC knew what the best way to tug at peoples tear ducts, and it would have been really difficult to have a core story that was much different than the Jack and Rose story.

To frame the entire movie you had to have a woman (ostensibly because of the "Women and children" first rule) tell the story because she is the most likely to have survived. You also had to have a person that would be able to tell a lucid/mostly adult understanding of the incident AND someone who would still be alive when the wreckage had been found so she had to be at the OLDEST a teenager. Most of the contemporary testimony of the titanic is from the children who survived and their memories are usually scaled down to the confusion and chaos of the night it sank and not the experience of being on the boat. It also had to be from the perspective of a 1st class passenger because we needed to have access to all parts of the boat... and a steerage passenger because that's what we all would have been.

 

All that being said - I love this fucking goddamn shit show movie. I cry every time. And by no coincidence I was 16 when it came out.

 

Aside: I have literally experienced the Goonies Conundrum since I showed it to my husband as an adult and he did not understand the appeal at all.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

"And then I performed this kind of psychic mind-meld so I could eavesdrop on Ismay telling the Captain to go faster. The captain didn't want to, but..."

 

"I KNOW THIS ALREADY! GIVE ME THE DIAMOND!"

 

Would have been great if Old Rose had replied with:

 

[PollyDarton 1807]

As a storytelling function, I always assumed that perhaps the "Let's stretch her legs" and any other thing Rose couldn't have seen first hand may have been filled out by the Paxton and wreckage crew. Rose is telling the story, but are we really viewing it through Rose's eyes directly or are we experiencing it ourselves as listeners of her story? In that way, I buy that the crew listening to her story could be filling in the holes themselves. (Might be a stretch)

 

Also - I feel like it is important to note that I can forgive a lot of those types of moments - including superfluous dialogue about there not being enough lifeboats and things like that because JC was trying to make THE movie about Titanic... A glowing love letter. This film contains vignettes of almost every piece of folklore about Titanic in some form or another. This is supposed to be the end-all-be-all definitive film of this story. Those little moments are meant to be a little bit educational and quite frankly at this point most people know what they know about Titanic because of this movie. When people make biopics about famous and historical figures they have a choice to tell a small story about a section of their life (like Lincoln?) or tell a HUGE story about their entire life (like... Ray maybe?) and Cameron chose the HUGE story. Everything had to be included. He really tried to get it right.

[PollyDarton 1807]

I would be surprised if anyone watched this... I have, but I am a little like Amy about Titanic. It's just this story (The history itself, not just the film) I find endlessly fascinating.

 

Anyways... it's kind of cold and forensic, but still pretty harrowing.

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

As a storytelling function, I always assumed that perhaps the "Let's stretch her legs" and any other thing Rose couldn't have seen first hand may have been filled out by the Paxton and wreckage crew. Rose is telling the story, but are we really viewing it through Rose's eyes directly or are we experiencing it ourselves as listeners of her story? In that way, I buy that the crew listening to her story could be filling in the holes themselves. (Might be a stretch)

 

I think this probably the excuse now, but if that’s what we’re supposed to believe, he could have added just one scene to show that. For example:

 

Rose: It was evening and Jack and I were on the deck - inexplicably alone as we always seemed to be on a ship with 2,000 people - when suddenly there was a great heave and the wind kicked up.

 

Paxton: (interrupting) The second day? That must have been when the Captain increased his speed.

 

It doesn’t have to be like this, but just something to establish they were having a dialogue. That they were participating in a give and take where Rose is telling him her story and he’s filling in gaps that might have seemed mysterious to her at the time.

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I think this probably the excuse now, but if that’s what we’re supposed to believe, he could have added just one scene to show that. For example:

 

Rose: It was evening and Jack and I were on the deck - inexplicably alone as we always seemed to be on a ship with 2,000 people - when suddenly there was a great heave and the wind kicked up.

 

Paxton: (interrupting) The second day? That must have been when the Captain increased his speed.

 

It doesn’t have to be like this, but just something to show they were having a dialogue. That they were participating in a give and take where Rose is telling him her story and he’s filling in gaps that might have seemed mysterious to her at the time.

 

Are you trying to make this movie LONGER? Don't give James Cameron any ideas.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Quick question: passing a note self-quoting the toast you just made - smooth, seduction technique or cringe-inducing red flag?

[Susan* 135]

I'm not quite making the within 6 months rule, but I'm definitely going to take a back seat for some movies I haven't seen in a while that I don't like. If I've got a clear enough picture in my mind on why a movie like Forest Gump sucks (I do and it does), I'll throw my opinion out there but I might not resist much if I'm outnumbered. I'll not going to make myself suffer through it again if I've seen a movie multiple times.

I'm already reconsidering. I don't have to watch Gump again to know why i hated it and I can easily rank it on my list when the time comes.

 

I realize that there are other movies I really need to re-watch, like 2001 (which I just re-watched) and Platoon. Those are movies I saw a long time ago and I know why they were significant when they were released but I'm not certain what their value is now.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

 

Would have been great if Old Rose had replied with:

 

She basically did when he interrupted her the MOMENT she started the story.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Also - I feel like it is important to note that I can forgive a lot of those types of moments - including superfluous dialogue about there not being enough lifeboats and things like that because JC was trying to make THE movie about Titanic... A glowing love letter. This film contains vignettes of almost every piece of folklore about Titanic in some form or another. This is supposed to be the end-all-be-all definitive film of this story. Those little moments are meant to be a little bit educational and quite frankly at this point most people know what they know about Titanic because of this movie. When people make biopics about famous and historical figures they have a choice to tell a small story about a section of their life (like Lincoln?) or tell a HUGE story about their entire life (like... Ray maybe?) and Cameron chose the HUGE story. Everything had to be included. He really tried to get it right.

I like also that it wasn't just a nudge to the audience like "eh get it cause there weren't enough lifeboats!" but later when Rose gets Mr. Andrews to tell her the truth this exchange happens -

 

Thomas Andrews: Please, tell only who you must. I don't wanna be responsible for a panic. And get to a boat quickly, don't wait. You remember what I told you about the boats?

Rose DeWitt Bukater: Yes... I understand.

 

I always liked the exchanges between them because Mr. Andrews seemed to know how smart Rose was and knew she could always follow along after she made that spot. So for me it wasn't just saying to the audience that the ship didn't have enough boats but that Rose was smart enough to catch this and realize how imperative it was for everyone's safety to get on one as soon as possible.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Oh fuck sorry for the triple posts, but here's a question my mom and I have still about this movie.

 

Towards the end, when Jack and Rose are on the back of the ship as it goes vertical there's this blonde woman that I don't recognize that makes eye contact with Rose, then - for seemingly no reason - Rose sneers at her and makes this face before turning away from her and paying attention to Jack again. Who the fuck was that woman and why does Rose turn into such a bitch in that moment?! They were all terrified of literally being on a sinking ship and Rose still has time to be petty???

 

I tried to look this up but unfortunately don't know how to describe it well enough to get any specific results, but I did unfortunately stumble upon an old forum that had been saved through Google from March of 1998 where there appears to be first documentation of a troll starting a topic that literally is called, "Rose is too fat," so that's lovely.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Oh fuck sorry for the triple posts, but here's a question my mom and I have still about this movie.

 

Towards the end, when Jack and Rose are on the back of the ship as it goes vertical there's this blonde woman that I don't recognize that makes eye contact with Rose, then - for seemingly no reason - Rose sneers at her and makes this face before turning away from her and paying attention to Jack again. Who the fuck was that woman and why does Rose turn into such a bitch in that moment?! They were all terrified of literally being on a sinking ship and Rose still has time to be petty???

 

I tried to look this up but unfortunately don't know how to describe it well enough to get any specific results, but I did unfortunately stumble upon an old forum that had been saved through Google from March of 1998 where there appears to be first documentation of a troll starting a topic that literally is called, "Rose is too fat," so that's lovely.

 

My rental period is over so I can’t revist the scene, but I know the moment you’re referring to. I didn’t get the impression that she was “sneering” at her. I felt like there was a moment of, I don’t know, recognition? If I recall, the woman was woman about Rose’s age and status. I felt Rose was looking at her and kind of shared a “How the fuck did we end up like this?” moment. The woman then plummets to her death. I think we’re supposed to see that they’re basically the same except the woman is alone and Rose has Jack.

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

My rental period is over so I can’t revist the scene, but I know the moment you’re referring to. I didn’t get the impression that she was “sneering” at her. I felt like there was a moment of, I don’t know, recognition? If I recall, the woman was woman about Rose’s age and status. I felt Rose was looking at her and kind of shared a “How the fuck did we end up like this?” moment. The woman then plummets to her death. I think we’re supposed to see that they’re basically the same except the woman is alone and Rose has Jack.

Nah dude I promise you it's a look of disgust. She even kind of gives the same look again when the woman, who didn't follow Jack and Rose's lead and was not on the other side of the railing, slipped and fell down onto the pile of people. They could have even grabbed her and pulled them up with them but instead they literally just watch as she struggles and then falls and there's no empathy from either one of them. There was no moment shared between them because the blonde woman looked nothing but terrified and Rose honestly looked disgusted by what was next to her. It's the one thing that actually doesn't make any sense to me in the entire movie. I mean I get that in times of crisis people's empathy can go out the window, but the whole time they had both been trying to actually get people to go to the boats and save others and then suddenly this moment happens and I still have yet to figure out what it means.

 

At first my mom and I thought it was that "much younger wife" of Victor's (is that his name in the movie cause that's his name on Young and the Restless so that's all I can refer to him as), but then in our many many rewatches we decided it's not her so we can't figure out wtf Rose's deal is.

[tomspanks 9039]

That was Helga, Fabrizio's lady friend. It wasn't a look of disgust on Rose, it was more like awkward-recognition-helplessness.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

That was Helga, Fabrizio's lady friend. It wasn't a look of disgust on Rose, it was more like awkward-recognition-helplessness.

Omggg it was Helga!

 

Idk maybe then I'm just noticing some bad acting, cause I never once got a feeling that Rose was ever friendly with this woman. Like I swear y'all every time my mom and I would watch this we would both yell at the tv "WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM BITCH?"

 

Also tbh I legit would have never recognized her. I feel like maybe that little nugget of a scene would have been more impactful if they have left the scene in where Fabrizio says goodbye to her.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Dang y'all almost forgot this nugget. Saw Hearts Beat Loud on Sunday (it's perfect everyone should go see it) and Kiersey Clemons makes a damn Titanic reference towards the end.

 

I have to say, no matter who likes this movie or not we all have to admit this thing has staying power. Everyone has seen it and everyone is still making references to it.

[grudlian. 4725]

Dang y'all almost forgot this nugget. Saw Hearts Beat Loud on Sunday (it's perfect everyone should go see it) and Kiersey Clemons makes a damn Titanic reference towards the end.

 

I have to say, no matter who likes this movie or not we all have to admit this thing has staying power. Everyone has seen it and everyone is still making references to it.

Bob Dylan wrote a song about the Titanic called Tempest in 2012. He mentioned Leo by name. If Bob Dylan is name checking you and your movie, that's definitely some serious cultural weight.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I'm just now enjoying going through my memory bank of any time another movie, show, or song references this movie.

 

Personally love this bit from Love, Actually

 

[sycasey 2.0 2301]

I can never forget the completely random Titanic reference in the middle of this Britney Spears video (at 2:50):

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CduA0TULnow

 

Some dude brings Rose's necklace to Mars for some reason. Britney is not super impressed.

[CaptainAmazing 127]

Apologizes if someone already said this, but 5 pages of comments is more than I’m willing to go through right now: I believe the whole dispute about their being enough room for both of them on the plank was settled with “there was enough room, but it wasn’t buoyant enough.” Someone told me that Jack even tried to climb on board as well, but that it started to sink, so he got off of it.

[EmilyU 7]

Late to the party, but I thought I'd share my Titanic experience.  When the movie was released, I was 18 and living abroad in a small city in Italy. I don't know if the film was received with the same level of mania in the States, but it seemed like the entire country of Italy collectively lost its shit. They went bananas. Shops started selling flags with DiCaprio's face on them, which people actually flew out their apartment windows, and the club remix of "My Heart Will Go On" was inescapable. I heard a rumor, which I never bothered to confirm, that the town where DiCaprio's ancestors lived renamed their town square "Piazza DiCaprio." My friend was obsessed and carried around a binder with film-related images from magazines. We attempted to make her a Rose dress for Carnival, but given that neither of us knew how to sew, it didn't go well.

Personally, I enjoyed the movie, but I don't LOVE it, although I did enjoy the movie-going experience. At the theater in the town I lived in (one theater, one screen), you could buy one ticket and stay as long as you wanted. I had missed the first few minutes, so I was able to stay and see the parts I had missed. They also added an intermission to every film, no matter how long, so everyone could go into the hall and smoke. So very Italian.

[Sharky86 15]

On 6/23/2018 at 7:11 PM, Cameron H. said:

 

Honestly, I can’t believe how patient Paxton was during her whole story. He’s sunk millions of dollars in finding this necklace, it’s his white whale, and she’s sitting there telling him stories about delivering sick Sigmund Freud burns on Bruce Ismay. By the time she got to “And then I said, ‘I’m flying, Jack,’” his character should have been like “Yeah, yeah, that’s all really cute, but where’s the fucking diamond?”

 

 

So way late to this party, but I'm generally late to the Unspooled party anyway. Bill Paxton actually did a skit on SNL that was about this and he starts berating her when she hems and haws about where the diamond is. Her granddaughter even yells at her for sitting on a multi-million dollar diamond the whole time. It was very funny.

I think Titanic is good, but it has flaws. I think everything about the ship and the sinking is amazing. The movie makes you feel like you are right there on the ship as everything is happening. The antithesis of that I feel is the love story. It feels too derivative compared to how innovative the actual sinking of the ship feels. Jack and Rose actually disappear for much of the sinking and I feel the movie is at its strongest at that moment. Personally, I felt aside from Rose and Victor Garber's character, all the other characters felt so flat. We know who they are, but that's it. We can identify them and that's all. It's nice, but I wouldn't mind a little more dimension aside from Cal and Lovejoy who devolve into cartoon characters. Ultimately, I do feel the positives outweigh the negatives of the movie.