Episode 222 - Unforgettable

[PollyDarton 1807]

12 hours ago, DrGuts1003 said:

Also, are we to believe that no one else came across Julia’s Facebook account.  I’m constantly getting asked if I want to be friends with people who I barely have any connection to and yet her fake account seemingly goes unnoticed by everyone else.  Surely Whitney Cummings or another one of her ChapterPad friends had to have gotten a notification that she was now on Facebook.

This would likely only be if Tessa had used Julia's email to set up her Facebook account, which she couldn't have because she would need to have continual access to the email to use the account. Using her actual email would have been risky because Julia could have gotten Facebook notifications on her email destroying Tessa's plan needlessly. Once she no longer had the phone she would no longer have her email, so I'm assuming she set up a doofer gmail account or something. If she had used Julia's email, then yes... she would have immediately popped up in "People you may know" to anyone who was in her contacts. Without that for Facebook to rely on, it would have only had where she was logging in from to use to suggest her as a friend. Since she moved to southern CA from northern CA she would have been out of her friend's region... HOWEVER... she possibly would have popped up in her fiance's suggestions, busting the whole con pretty early on... or anyone else living in their little community.
On the other hand, Tessa would have been smart to not tell Facebook where "Julia" was living to avoid this.  

My father is an attorney and he had a man set up a fake Facebook account with his picture (that he got off of the law office's website) so that he could sell people fake government bonds. The only reason we found out was because someone who had been contacted by "my dad" to be sold the fake bonds actually called my father personally on the phone to find out if it was legit... he looked him up on their website and called directly like a smart person. We had the fake profile shut down that day, but the guy popped up and did it several more times.

The moral of the story is: everyone should search for themselves on FB sporadically.

[Blast Hardcheese 636]

On 9/13/2019 at 7:10 AM, ClefCrescendo said:

I can't believe I just learned today that Steve Mnuchin was a film producer!!! AND that he's worked on MANY big films! I'm at a loss for words...

Executive Producer of the following films:

6 Below: Miracle on the Mountain, The House, Annabelle: Creation, Wonder Woman, King Arthur: Legend of the Sword, Unforgettable, Going in Style, CHIPS, Fist Fight, The Lego Batman Movie, Collateral Beauty, Rules Don't Apply (he also appears in this one!), The Accountant, The Midnight Man, Storks, Sully, Suicide Squad, The Legend of Tarzan, Central Intelligence, Lights Out, The Conjuring 2, Keanu, Batman v Superman: Dawn of Justice, Midnight Special, How to Be Single, In the Heart of the Sea, Pan, The Intern, Our Brand Is Crisis, Black Mass, The Man from U.N.C.L.E., Vacation, Entourage, Mad Max: Fury Road, Get Hard, Run All Night, American Sniper, Inherent Vice, Annabelle, This Is Where I Leave You, Edge of Tomorrow, Blended, Winter's Tale, The Lego Movie!

Being of the fairly left-leaning political persuasion, I can't help but chuckle at the "of course they do" irony of how con's are already established (or are becoming increasingly  more involved) in an industry the right-wing has for so long regarded as a bastion of liberal elitism. Trump has his star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame, Louise Linton is writing and directing movies and her hubby producer Steven Mnuchin has his thumbs is a plethora of Tinseltown pies (some in partnership with #hetoo Brett Ratner, no less!) Next time your drunk uncle or sister-in-law starts whining about how some "...damn Hollyweird libtard should shut their mouth about politics and stick to acting," hip them to the fact that the Secretary of the Treasury of these here divided states is pretty darned cozy with them elitist SJW cucks they claim to have so much disdain for. Not that facts mean anything anymore in this day and age, by hey, it's still a pretty solid snack to feed trolls.

Anyhoo...

At some point during this stress-inducing movie after she had been gas-lit for as long as she had, I was waiting for Julia to turn to David and just tell him that shit has gotten far too weird for her; that she's packing up her stuff, going back to San Francisco and ghosting his inattentive ass to "...think things over for a while." At one point, Ali, after presenting Julia with a paper trail of Tessa's past criminal transgressions (which, it should be noted, never again come into play, even when Julia is hauled off to the police department), even suggests that Julia goes back with her to San Francisco. I was screaming at my television, "YES! DO THAT! DO EXACTLY THAT!"

Then, in the scene where Tessa flails herself down the stairway, David looks up at Julia with this "How could you?" look on his face. This dude doesn't have Julia's back at all. He's already asking Julia to step into this established life with him and his daughter, and when shit gets real, he's seemingly taking the side of the woman he divorced for a myriad of good reasons. Now, this movie is already women vs. woman enough, so we have to settle for the cards it's dealt us. But, it's really not too much to ask that David stand by Julia and at least listen to her side of the story, is it?

That scene in the police station where the detective is acting all dead-to-rights is absolutely infuriating. It's 2017 and you can trace "Julia's" Facebook account access back to Tessa's IP address? Fuck you, movie!

Lastly, I listened to the podcast before watching the movie and was under the assumption that, from the way Jason and June regarded it, Julia drove this sad little Ford Fiesta down to her new luxurious life L.A. From their reaction to it, I was envisioning some beat-up aqua marine-colored two-door deal from the early 90's, not the modern C Max version we see Julia driving in the film. While it's not the car I'd buy, I could see someone in the tech/online industry driving this fairly sporty, youthful-ish and affordable hatchback (and one that fits into the narrow and rare parking spaces found in San Francisco). It telegraphs her character pretty well. I mean David drives a BMW in this movie, and he is pretty much a douche, so...

[Cameron H. 23786]

I’m 100% on Julia’s side, but it really was goddamned irresponsible of her to lose track of child in a public area because she had to  answer a call from an “unknown” number. You don’t *have* to answer every phone call - especially coming from an unknown number or a number you don’t recognize. That call from the people informing you your car’s warranty is about to expire really isn’t worth a child’s life.

No matter what else Tessa did, that fuck up was still on Julia.

[PollyDarton 1807]

1 minute ago, Cameron H. said:

I’m 100% on Julia’s side, but it really was goddamned irresponsible of her to lose track of child in a public area because she had to  answer a call from an “unknown” number. You don’t *have* to answer every phone call - especially coming from an unknown number or a number you don’t recognize. That call from the people informing you your car’s warranty is about to expire really isn’t worth a child’s life.

No matter what else Tessa did, that fuck up was still on Julia.

That's another great moral to take away from this story: Never - EVER - answer calls from blocked, unknown, or phone numbers you don't know. *

If it is someone who legitimately is trying to talk to you they will leave a message.

(*Of course with the exceptions of the times when you know you will be imminently receiving a phone call from a number you won't know or answering your phone is a big part of your job.)

That being said, Julia's technology behavior reminds me a lot of my parent's.  

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

28 minutes ago, Blast Hardcheese said:

That scene in the police station where the detective is acting all dead-to-rights is absolutely infuriating. It's 2017 and you can trace "Julia's" Facebook account access back to Tessa's IP address? Fuck you, movie!

 

4 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

That's another great moral to take away from this story: Never - EVER - answer calls from blocked, unknown, or phone numbers you don't know. *

That being said, Julia's technology behavior reminds me a lot of my parent's.  

Both of these points, plus the "real detective work only happens on printed paper" attitude, make me think this movie was written by boomers who watch too much Dateline.

[Cameron H. 23786]

7 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

That being said, Julia's technology behavior reminds me a lot of my parent's.  

 

Just now, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Both of these points, plus the "real detective work only happens on printed paper" attitude, make me think this movie was written by boomers who watch too much Dateline.

I just found exclusive footage of the Unforgettable script being written!

[PollyDarton 1807]

5 hours ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Any court in the country would've convicted Julia in a heartbeat. 

And I laughed out loud when the cops holding Julia said that the evidence against her was all circumstantial. Forget the sexting and panties in the car ... her abusive ex lying dead on her kitchen floor, stabbed by a knife that had Julia's prints all over it? That's "circumstantial?" 

And then to have the cops walk in to see another person dead by stabbing while Julia's holding the knife? Sorry, Julia ... see you at the parole hearing in 10 years. 

 

57 minutes ago, Blast Hardcheese said:

That scene in the police station where the detective is acting all dead-to-rights is absolutely infuriating. It's 2017 and you can trace "Julia's" Facebook account access back to Tessa's IP address? Fuck you, movie!

What I love about these 2 quotes is that it shows how incompetent the cops are in both directions of the investigation. 

We really should talk about the interrogation scenes. I'm not going to rent it again, but there is line where the cops are like "You expect us to believe... [explains precisely what happens]" and I'm screaming "YES!"

ALSO- the cop says "Sorry, I had to show him the file" when Julia asks where her fiance went... Is that standard detective work!?

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

7 minutes ago, PollyDarton said:

We really should talk about the interrogation scenes. I'm not going to rent it again, but there is line where the cops are like "You expect us to believe... [explains precisely what happens]" and I'm screaming "YES!"

ALSO- the cop says "Sorry, I had to show him the file" when Julia asks where her fiance went... Is that standard detective work!?

Any cop in 2017 that hasn't heard of identity theft needs to turn in their badge and gun. Especially the gun.

But, I'm pretty sure the cops can show David the evidence against Julia. If they thought showing him might convince him to give up some crucial info on her, they'd do it. 

[Cameron H. 23786]

I still think it’s bonkers that Julia works in publishing - digital publishing no less - and has zero online presence. Not even a work Facebook account or Twitter... 

[CaptainAmazing 127]

I was at the live show. Didn’t get called on, but I wanted to contribute this: As someone who’s survived a serious head trauma, there is no way that David rememberers much at all from that evening, particularly that Tessa really was guilty of everything and how she got stabbed. What I went through was probably worse, but I have no memory of about an hour before and about five days after.

David having a head injury means that Julia is totally without an eyewitness, and the absurdly-skeptical police who have never even heard of a fake Facebook profile will probably think she was guilty of everything.

Edited September 15, 2019 by CaptainAmazing

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

4 hours ago, DrGuts1003 said:

We also see Tessa have two margaritas at lunch with Julia.  According to nutritionaction.com “Most restaurant chains’ mojitos, Moscow mules, and margaritas deliver 200 to 300 calories. Chili’s Strawberry or Mango Patrón Margarita hits 360. But a classic margarita—tequila, lime, triple sec—in a small glass cuts most of the sugar and hovers around 200 calories.”

How many times during an average hen session of probing your exhusband's new girl for sensitive info over top shelf margaritas at Chili's do you think Tessa asks to talk to the manager?

[Cameron H. 23786]

5 hours ago, DrGuts1003 said:

We also see Tessa have two margaritas at lunch with Julia.  According to nutritionaction.com “Most restaurant chains’ mojitos, Moscow mules, and margaritas deliver 200 to 300 calories. Chili’s Strawberry or Mango Patrón Margarita hits 360. But a classic margarita—tequila, lime, triple sec—in a small glass cuts most of the sugar and hovers around 200 calories.”

And how have we not talked about Tessa vaping yet?!?  For a woman so consumed with beauty, she sure has a lot of unhealthy habits.

To be fair, she left the second margarita almost completely untouched. Sorry, no screen grab, but I did note that it was mostly full because I’m almost 100% certain Tessa stiffed Julia with the bill.

As far as the vaping, I thought it was hilarious as well and that it was somehow a comment on her artificially versus Julia’s more authentic pack of cowboy killers.

[Dylan619xf 8]

I thought there was a huge missed opportunity with the death of Tessa. Earlier in the movie it’s mentioned that as a teenager Tessa attempted to burn down the house while her father and stepmother are inside.

Cut to the last act: Tessa standing in front of a fireplace wearing a flammable, loose-fitting caftan. Everything else in this movie was so predictable it seems only fitting Tessa would have died by accidentally stepping backwards and the edge of the caftan would have set aflame, or done so purposefully after seeing her scratched face and/or realizing she is a monster. 

Since Julia is likely the only other person in the scene to know about Tessa’s past, it would have made for a more intriguing end.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Did anyone else want to puke whenever Julia’s husband referred to her as “Mrs Connover” like he was bestowing some kind of fucking honorific upon her?

[The_Other_MikeD 68]

9 hours ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Any court in the country would've convicted Julia in a heartbeat. 

And I laughed out loud when the cops holding Julia said that the evidence against her was all circumstantial. Forget the sexting and panties in the car ... her abusive ex lying dead on her kitchen floor, stabbed by a knife that had Julia's prints all over it? That's "circumstantial?" 

And then to have the cops walk in to see another person dead by stabbing while Julia's holding the knife? Sorry, Julia ... see you at the parole hearing in 10 years. 

What about the husband telling his story of being hit with a poker? Then it would make sense that Rosario was acting in self-defense as she was also attacked. I'm going with reasonable doubt in this case. The worst part was the detective basically saying, "I guess all that other stuff we accused you of earlier was a mistake and certainly can't be seen as more of the same. Sorry. See you at the hospital."

[The_Other_MikeD 68]

9 hours ago, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Putting two cents in on this week's bicameral debate, seemingly intended to polarize the boards and divide us ideologically:

I didn't read Tessa's final act as either a noble sacrifice or a response to her disfigured visage. It was the compulsive action of someone who had a manic crash and acted tragically. 

She looks at herself in the mirror and says "Why do you always ruin everything?" This seems like a line meant to reflect everything that her mother has told her all her life and that she had internalized over time which, after years of festering as maladaptive behaviors, manifested in the psycho behavior we see in the movie and culminated in one final psychological break and a snap decision to assess her own worthlessness and end her own life. In that regard, she seems like any number of deeply depressed individuals whose outward perfection masks a deep inner pain that she is unable to acknowledge and deal with, in which case, yeah, I might agree with Paul that she's misunderstood.

On the other hand, the "defeated villain hurls herself to her death" is just the kind of cheap Hollywood trope tripe that this movie seems to be peddling, so ... 

BOTH sides are right. The disfigurement made her decide to do the noble sacrifice. As Katherine looked in the mirror she saw the same scratches that were on Rosario's face on her own. She then realized that she was becoming just like her mother and decided to break the cycle by killing herself. Katherine hugs Rosario to keep Rosario from blaming herself for having to kill her.

[The_Other_MikeD 68]

Great scene at the end when the boys on their bikes ride by and say, "Hello, Mrs. Connover." Probably because of her proclivity to wear short see-through robes out to gather the mail.

And here's the plots of the next movies. One, a prequel with Katherine Heigl as the mother in the style of Mommie Dearest. Finally, a sequel where the now teenaged daughter burns down their house and the cycle begins anew.

 

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

1 hour ago, The_Other_MikeD said:

What about the husband telling his story of being hit with a poker? Then it would make sense that Rosario was acting in self-defense as she was also attacked. I'm going with reasonable doubt in this case. The worst part was the detective basically saying, "I guess all that other stuff we accused you of earlier was a mistake and certainly can't be seen as more of the same. Sorry. See you at the hospital."

Because cops love admitting their mistakes 

I think most prosecutors worth their salt could cast doubt across David's testimony. Oh, this guy who loves the defendant and hates the deceased, who was out cold for most of the time and who could barely spell his name after the fact, said it didn't go down like it totally looks like it went down? One well-prepped brain trauma expert testimony during the cross-examination phase of the trial would mop that right up. 

[Blast Hardcheese 636]

At the end of the movie, did David move his entire brewing operation up to San Francisco from Los Angeles? It wouldn't be unheard of, but Copper Mountain seems to be in its infancy as a company and moving the whole operation (office, the brewing tanks and hiring a whole new crew--unless his original staff moved up there with him) seems not only cost prohibitive at this stage in the game, but financially irresponsible as well.

The final stinger of this film, where Tessa's mother, Lovey, pops in and Julia is all, like, "Great. Now I have to deal with this crazy bitch" doesn't hold even half as much weight as implied, if you think about it. Crazy though she may be, Lovey’s still just the grandmother. Julia is certainly more self-assured than David, but together they could still assert the ground rules in their own home and visitation with Lily when grandma comes a-callin'. Also, Julia's positive influence would ultimately negate Lovey's dysfunctional bullshit when she comes a-caliin' on occasion from out of town . Besides, what is ultimately in it for Lovey if she's on the crazy tip? Her daughter's dead and David is married to a new woman. The gravy train she was grooming for her daughter is over so what's the point in trying to crazy-up from here? Vengeance, maybe? But, I'm pretty sure, given her recent experience and age, Julia could easily take Lovey on (and out) if it came to down to it.

[DrGuts1003 462]

As someone who enjoys craft beer (but would never quit my cushy job to start my own brewery) I researched the name Copper Mountain Brewery and it turns out such a company exists out of Indiana.  Here is a picture of one of their beers.

I’m not sure how they could use the same name unless “Copper Mountain Brewing” is considered different from “Copper Mountain Brewery”.

Using Copper Mountain as the name of his brewery is also a bit odd as the Copper Mountains are in Colorado not California.  Most craft breweries tend to choose a name that is somehow associated with the area where they are making the beer.  The only association I could find between Copper Mountain and California was a community college called Copper Mountain College near Joshua Tree.  Maybe that’s where Tessa got her degree that will allow her to get a job.

[joel_rosenbaum 1269]

Here's an aside:

Congratulations June on appearing on Maron's podcast -- surprised it hadn't happened already (Paul was on WTF episode 124, Jason on episode 824).

[The_Triple_Lindy 2482]

14 hours ago, Blast Hardcheese said:

At the end of the movie, did David move his entire brewing operation up to San Francisco from Los Angeles? It wouldn't be unheard of, but Copper Mountain seems to be in its infancy as a company and moving the whole operation (office, the brewing tanks and hiring a whole new crew--unless his original staff moved up there with him) seems not only cost prohibitive at this stage in the game, but financially irresponsible as well.

That's funny ... I recognized that they were in a new house and thought it odd that Whitney Cummings just casually came by for breakfast since she didn't live in the same town. I suppose the implication is, indeed, they moved to SF. Which is fine ... if the brewery is off the ground, he doesn't need to be on site, but what is it with this movie and telecommuting? This film seems to either hate or misunderstand just about everything tech-related.

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I haven't seen all of the movie yet because I'm pretty sure it will cause my anxiety to go haywire so let me know if this is covered: Do they talk about Tessa's divorce settlement? It doesn't look like she is suffering financially. Her mom seems to act like she needs to get her husband back for financial security. I think Tessa wants him back because she refuses to lose anything she thinks of as "hers" and I do think deep down she loved him, in the sense that she loves that he loved her and who he thought she was and their idealized life together. The perfect family kind of thing. I don't think she loves her ex the way most people would see love. It's more the idea of everything. 

So my question I guess is what was her divorce settlement like do we think? She's still a partner in the brewery and cleary has a decent house and dresses like an Ivanka clone. Do we think there was a prenup? She's def got alimony right?

[gigi-tastic 2322]

I just want to say if my fiancee ever failed to believe me when I tried to tell them about something even remotely half as bad as this shit I would leave them in less than a heartbeat. Fuck David. He's the absolute worst, worse than Tessa in my opinion. She at least is mentally ill. He never for a moment is completely convinced that she hasn't done what Tessa says she has. He has no faith in her. Frankly I don't think he has faith in either woman in his life and just thinks deep down bitches be cray and will wait for absolute proof before he chooses who to give his allegiance to. 

[CaptainAmazing 127]

On 9/15/2019 at 12:06 PM, The_Triple_Lindy said:

Despite being a well-documented piece of shit, can we have a moment of empathy for David's likely-diminished quality of life after sustaining a headshot from a fire poker and being unconscious for several minutes? The long-term consequences of a blow to the head followed by prolonged unconsciousness are well documented, and I personally know a handful of people who have received head injuries and have gone on to suffer seizures, narcolepsy, memory damage, and sight or hearing loss. Human beings' soft, squishy bodies don't usually just bounce back from stuff like that. 

And spare a thought for Julia, who'll likely have to be David's caretaker. David probably won't be allowed to drive, which means Julia will have to haul him back and forth from the brewery and regular CT scans.

Finally caught up this far in the thread. Yeah, speaking as a serious head trauma survivor, he's going to have some serious problems in the short term that Julia will have to help take care of. In the long term he's probably at least going to have some low-level memory problems for the rest of his life, and that's if he's very lucky. And like I said, his eyewitness testimony is pretty much the only thing keeping Julia out of jail (see The_Triple_Lindy's post), but he magically remembers everything from 10 minutes before his injury, which I can't say that I could do.

But with all the plot holes and bad writing in this movie (I may have to make an entire separate post on the terrible police work), I can't expect them to know anything about the medical realities of brain injuries. this particular type of sloppy writing is sadly so common that it has two TV Tropes pages: Tap on the Head and Hard Head.

Interesting side note: There's about a 1 in 3 chance that I was listening to an archived HDTGM episode at the time of my accident. If that's the case, somehow figuring out which one it was would help me reconstruct what happened, because finding details has helped me remember other things that were happening around the same time.