Episode 238 — Bloodshot (w/ Adam Scott)

[Wil Dride 121]

Basically, this is Memento, but Guy Pearce is John G (Joey Pants). The protagonists of both are amnesiacs who murder people based on manipulated memories of a murdered wife.

[pscudese 701]

My 3 big questions / points:

1. I’m really confused why Vin’s abilities were deemed more elite when it comes to killing the other tech partners vs. those of the three super humans. Also the “legs guy” and “blind guy” were successful in capturing Vin when he went rogue; so then they in turn are elite enough to take out some hired guns and a tech billionaire.
2. In that the simulation in Vin’s head must be beyond perfect and not feel like a dream… did the engineers actually create a full sex scene between him and his wife? And if so, the engineers most likely had to watch the entire thing each time to ensure there are no glitches that could cause a disruption for the next assignation. 
3. Finally, another connection to this movie trying so hard to be a marvel film… is that didn’t we already see Guy Pierce play a genius with an ulterior motive? Iron Man 3…

             

PS: As a reminder everyone, the infamous “Gish & Gertz” shirt is on sale and ALL profits are going to Feeding America. You can buy it here: 

https://www.teepublic.com/t-shirt/8894703-hdtgm-gish-and-gertz?store_id=120640

Also Ms. Gish is 100% in on it!

[pscudese 701]

What I’m so confused about… Is that they had some great source material from the comics.

In the comics, the lead (Bloodshot) is a rising star in the mafia as a great hitman. Then his crime family turns on him and when Bloodshot decides to turn against them by working with the FBI… The FBI agent then double crosses Bloodshot. Later, Bloodshot’s dead body is discovered by the corporation who injects him with the nanytes. After a long period of time And many rounds of his memory being wiped, Bloodshot doesn’t remember anything and now wants to enact revenge on who did this to him.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I did not watch this movie. My understanding of Bloodshot from the comics was that he was brought back from the dead and now was really impossible to stop. And he had red eyes. That's all I remember. 

When they were talking about the wife and how it would be more interesting if they hadn't been married and it made me think of X-MEN ORIGINS WOLVERINE where it turns out Silverfox was not killed by Sabertooth and she had been manipulating Wolverine all along. 

And then I thought, "is this a WORSE version of that movie? Because that is famously the worst Wolverine film." 

So they took a comic book character, the plot to Wolverine, added in the scientist from IRON MAN 3 and were like "we did it! It's great!" (I am now obligated by feminism to point out Guy Pearce was not supposed to be the villain of IM3. Disney corporate objected to the original plan of having the female scientist--Maya Hansen--be the villain saying they wouldn't sell toys or some nonsense. So they demanded it be rewritten. An I rewatched it recently and the theme of hiding behind a fake male villain, the Mandarin, and being the puppet master would've been so much more interesting if it was a woman because she felt she couldn't get ahead in tech another way. So we were robbed.)

[DrGuts1003 462]

Everyone seemed confused about the ending and what happened to Vin, but given that this movie is basically one big cheat when it comes to what is and is not real, isn't it possible that the "happy ending" is just a new simulation by Guy Pearce and his company?  What if they realized that their current motivation story wasn't working anymore and developed a new story that made him think he had killed off the team and was now free, when in reality he is still being manipulated by Pearce?

In essence, it would be a much dumber version of the ending in Inception where it's ambiguous if the top will stop spinning.  It seemed like that Navy medallion was maybe going to be used in a similar capacity, but it (like so many things in this movie) never really pays off.

[DrGuts1003 462]

Once it is revealed that they keep rebooting Vin to kill each of these guy, the implication is that they keep the story the same and that Vin responds the exact same way each time by remembering after drinking, stealing the jet, etc.  So does that mean he is punching that load-bearing column every time?  If so how is it not completely destroyed by now?  Are they having Phyllis and the other office drones repairing it every time he is getting rebooted on that table?

[Omaxem 232]

8 hours ago, Wil Dride said:

Basically, this is Memento, but Guy Pearce is John G (Joey Pants). The protagonists of both are amnesiacs who murder people based on manipulated memories of a murdered wife.

Hi Wil, i know that this isn't your job, and thank you for starting the thread, but can you please edit the title so that it features the episode number, something like Episode 238 - Bloodshot ? It will make it easier to search/locate the ep in the future. Not trying to be a jerk, just legit asking. Thank you 

 

I've not seen this film, i'm not paying for it nor planning to stream it illegally. Is the ep fun? I usually prefer to have seen the film before listening, but i'm having a hard time lately with all of the COVID limitations of... everything, and if this ep is very dependant on the film-watching experience i think i'll give it a pass.

Also, if someone can recommend any movies about puppies and/or kittens just hanging out and being happy about their lives for 90+ minutes with little to no dialogue it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

[Cameron H. 23786]

1 hour ago, Omaxem said:

I've not seen this film, i'm not paying for it nor planning to stream it illegally. Is the ep fun? I usually prefer to have seen the film before listening, but i'm having a hard time lately with all of the COVID limitations of... everything, and if this ep is very dependant on the film-watching experience i think i'll give it a pass.

We brought this up in the Minisode thread, but it will be available to rent May 5th. I’m planning on waiting until at least then myself.

@DanEngler, could you please fix the thread title so it’s more searchable? Thank you   

[RuncibleShaw 21]

Hey... Gang? (does the HDTGM cast have a nickname?)

I just wanted to chime in about your confusion about Vin Diesel being connected to the internet and why he just couldn't find out whatever he wanted. They explain this in the movie. He's connected to the big server room in Guy Pearce's villain tower, which KT later destroys, so all the information he gets is filtered through there. I actually thought it was a pretty clever. You're right though that it would be a better movie if Vin's character overcame this filter to discover he was being played or did anything other then get pointed in various directions to go murder people.

As for the nanites, I think that they're meant to be like rechargeable batteries. The percentage readout isn't how many nanites are left in his body, but rather how much total energy the nanites have. When they put him on the table between mission they're changing out the old depleted nanites for freshly charged ones. I agree that it's not made very clear. Just as unclear, as you all pointed out, is how Vin survives when he gets blown up with no nanite power left. I think the explanation is that the tech guy basically uses the same process to revive Vin and put him back together that Guy Pearce used to revive him originally. But, the movie doesn't make this clear at all.

I also loved the flour fight (logical inconsistencies aside), and really disliked the mostly CG end fight. All the bodies in wide shots in the last fight look doll-like in the wide shots and really took me out of enjoying it. Apparently that end fight was added after the film was screened for the studio. The original ending took place in the pool where we see KT do her water dance (which I also really liked) but wasn't big or action-packed enough. 

 

Later Gators

[AdrianFlynn 68]

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

5 hours ago, Omaxem said:

Also, if someone can recommend any movies about puppies and/or kittens just hanging out and being happy about their lives for 90+ minutes with little to no dialogue it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

There is an Animal Planet show called “Too Cute” about baby animals that might be what you are looking for. I have only seen some episodes. https://www.animalplanet.com/tv-shows/too-cute/

i also liked the Disney+ series called “Pick of the Litter” that is about puppies training to be guide dogs for the blind. 

[Littleredsteel 5]

Forgive me if this is the wrong place to post this, I’m new around here. 
But I have to talk about the FLOUR FIGHT! The  second the film made sure we knew this was flour filling the tunnel with dust I rubbed my hand together in excitement, waiting for the big giant flour explosion that never came!

Flour is flammable! We’ve known the dangers of flour dust for 150 years since the first mill explosions and grain elevator explosions and it’s even been used as a film plot (Equalizer 2!). Dust bags with squibs inside are how film makers make practical explosion effects! 

This fight looked cool, and was probably the high point of the movie. But I’m forever furious for the lack of flour ignition! 

[DrGuts1003 462]

When KT is trying to get Vin to trigger his memories by having a drink with him, if he had chosen to have a Corona, would he have started having flashbacks of stealing TV/VCR combo units and towing a bank vault down the streets of Rio?

[HelloooNurse 7]

Hello, Navy lady here. Just wanted to address the second opinions reviewer that had an issue with KT. She's not a Navy SEAL. She's a Navy diver. A totally different rate (job). I only watched the movie once, but from what I remember the only SEAL there was Sam Heughan's character, Fork Lift Arms. Although, I couldn't tell what branch Vin Diesel was in. I think he was in the Army, but he coulda been a SEAL too. Who knows?!!

I think the coin KT gives Ray/Bloodshot should have had more meaning in the movie. Giving someone a coin is a part of Naval traditions. They're *usually* given by higher ups to subordinates for a job well done. Essentially, they're supposed to be something you earn. So her story about the master chief giving it to her checks out. However, it's not something I would receive only to turn around and give to some random Joe I literally met that day. Though she knows him from all the previous hits, it has no meaning to Vin's character. She's a stranger to him. It would have had a better emotional punch if she gave it to him at the end of the movie. Actually, it would have been waaaay more satisfying if it had been a coin he gave to her at the end for all the emotional labor she was put through in this movie!

The intro of Ray's wife in the beginning  was just odd. I guess we can chalk it up to it being a part of the simulation, but did anyone notice they don't even show her face until the scene in bed? She was all blonde hair and legs. I found it kinda creepy. I kept thinking this should be a lot sexier or at least romantic, but it was awkward. And I'm with June...love me some Vin Diesel, but this just wasn't it.

[Cam Bert 8145]

I get most of the teams abilities but what is KT's deal though? She basically has robot lungs that she can turn on and off. On paper this seems cool, but when you think about it all it's about as useful as wheels on a fish. All she has is basically a device to allows her to hold her breath. What good is that going to do? Well simply not much. Sure she can go underwater for possibly longer. She is a trained navy diver but even then they are trained to hold their breath from 2 to 3 and half minutes or so. That's it. This doesn't help her because it was something she was already trained in! Maybe she can go a bit longer with robolungs but let me take you back to basic biology. We need our lungs so we can get oxygen into the blood. Why do we need oxygen in the blood? Well that's how our cells create energy. That fuels the cells which allows them to work which you know, keeps us alive. So she's got robot lungs, but she still needs to get oxygen into her blood or else she'll die so she still has to breath.  What about gas I hear you say? She uses it on those guards and her electro-throat helped her. Well that's a specific kind of gas, what about other kinds of gas? Have you ever seen a gas mask? Notice how it also covers the eyes and nose? That's because gas can burn your eyes, get into your airways and burn and cause damage that way. Sure she's not "breathing in" the gas but the thing about gas is that it's gas and gas can enter any open orifice like her eyes or nose even if she's not breathing. She basically got a winning lottery ticket but the prize money was the cost of the ticket.

[RyanSz 3140]

Slight correction:

When Paul was talking about what Bloodshot looks like in the comic and what X-Men character he resembles, I believe he was thinking of Mr. Sinister who has chalk white skin and red diamonds on various spots of his body, who also has a similar power in that he's able to modify his body at a molecular level in order to help withstand damage he receives.

 

As for the repeating of the prepping scenario the bad guys do, the only other film that I've seen it done to a more horrifying extent was 50 First Dates with Adam Sandler and Drew Barrymore. The lengths that her family go through to have her relive the day of the accident where she got her brain injury, including buying hundreds of copies of the local newspaper that day, getting a VHS copy of the football game they were going to watch that night, buying numerous birthday cakes, and getting the local diner to go along with it as well since she went there for breakfast that morning, I'm amazed that they didn't kill themselves from the tedium of it all. Then when Sandler gets involved and ends up revealing to her what actually happened, the family has the local doctor Dan Akroyd on speed dial to come tranquilize her because she obviously and understandably has a nervous breakdown at the realization of what her life is at that point. The most telling moment is when Sandler asks the dad what's going to happen years down the road when she wakes up thinking she's in her mid-30s and looks into the mirror to see she's decades older, only for the dad to say something along the line of "I don't know and I hope neither me or her have to experience that," like he hopes God takes mercy on the family and kills one of them.

[GrahamS. 803]

On 4/24/2020 at 2:02 PM, Omaxem said:

Hi Wil, i know that this isn't your job, and thank you for starting the thread, but can you please edit the title so that it features the episode number, something like Episode 238 - Bloodshot ? It will make it easier to search/locate the ep in the future. Not trying to be a jerk, just legit asking. Thank you 

 

I've not seen this film, i'm not paying for it nor planning to stream it illegally. Is the ep fun? I usually prefer to have seen the film before listening, but i'm having a hard time lately with all of the COVID limitations of... everything, and if this ep is very dependant on the film-watching experience i think i'll give it a pass.

Also, if someone can recommend any movies about puppies and/or kittens just hanging out and being happy about their lives for 90+ minutes with little to no dialogue it would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

Sorry you’re feeling stressed. I haven’t watched the film either and I’ve listened to about half the episode before stopping. Honestly, it’s the most earnest discussion about a film that I think I’ve heard them have, with jokes and anecdotes at a bare minimum. For me, some of the most entertaining moments  in past eps have been when the gang tells personal stories. In the 47 minutes that I listened to (out of 83), there was nothing like that happening.

it was fun to hear Adam Scott and Jason comment about the $20 price tag, but that’s about it.

I’ll probably finish the episode at some point, but if you need something fun and accessible, I wouldn’t recommend it.

if you need help processing our current pandemic, BTW, I HIGHLY recommend the podcast Staying In with Emily and Kumail. It is a podcast that makes use of both of their comic talents and Emily’s background as a therapist. Not every moment of the podcast is light and fun, but I have depression and truly find it therapeutic to listen to. It is my favorite podcast that has been created because of COVID. That sounds weird but it’s true!

[Doctor Suessicide 42]

I would like to address how mad Guy Pearce when he finds out that the tech guy used Open Source Software as part of their project.

This is about as absurd as yelling at a chef when you find out there's salt it your meal. Sure, you could get by without it but no one does because it would be more work for a worse product. It's safe to say that the machine you're reading this on would not exist without open source software.

Also, in scientific research it's considered bad practice to keep your source code closed as it prevents others from testing your results. That's for peer-reviewed journals, though, and maybe this organization plans on killing anyone who criticizes their work.

I guess Guy Pearce doesn't know much about how his science/tech actually works, so he's more of an Evil CEO than a Mad Scientist. In which case, I wish the final act of this movie was KT & Wiggins digging through the nitty-gritty of software licensing law and having Vin play a cyborg lawyer.

[theworstbuddhist 572]

Yeesh, this movie was even dumber than I expected. As others have pointed out, a lot of Memento in there. I'm kind of surprised that literally no one has used the phrase "Jacob's Ladder Scenario" with reference to this movie yet.

[jason_ped 2]

Our house is pro-Outlander so when my wife notified me Sam Heughan was being bullied, I'm like what for.....being too tall and handsome.  It's an easy sell to if Sam is in the movie but yeah not gonna pay 20 bucks I'll wait until May.  If you like Moore's Battlestar style you'll like Outlander.  It's mom porn mixed with soap opera, with a splash of science fiction.  Lots of deus ex machina when characters are in trouble but there are some surprise perma death moments.   

[Cam Bert 8145]

So Vinny D's ex has a kid now. The kid let's say is three. The implication is that he left her because he couldn't settle down. So he has to leave her, not come back, she has to find another man, fall in love, get pregnant and then have a kid and watch it grow a few years before Vin comes back for a visit. What's the timeline on this? Say roughly what, 4 or 5 years? Because Vin still thinks they were married. Now, I get it that this was a memory they created for him, but how far back did the memories go? He surely would remember leaving his wife so do they just start with the last time he saw her and start building from there? If he died on that last mission so they only have to create a little bit of false memories, how long ago did he die? Have they been doing this for 4 or 5 years? Clearly Bloodshot is the peak of their robo-solider program so if they made him that long ago have legs, CT, and Eye Boy just been repeating the same stuff for 4 or 5 years? If you can make a dead guy Bloodshot surely you can do better than robo-eyes, throat and legs. If it hasn't been that long did they create years of fake memories for him? I want to know.

[Omaxem 232]

On 4/25/2020 at 3:42 AM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

i also liked the Disney+ series called “Pick of the Litter” that is about puppies training to be guide dogs for the blind. 

Well, i'm definitely checking this out, thanks.

19 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

if you need help processing our current pandemic, BTW, I HIGHLY recommend the podcast Staying In with Emily and Kumail. It is a podcast that makes use of both of their comic talents and Emily’s background as a therapist. Not every moment of the podcast is light and fun, but I have depression and truly find it therapeutic to listen to. It is my favorite podcast that has been created because of COVID. That sounds weird but it’s true!

Thanks, i'll give it a pass then . It's not even the staying inside thing, but my mental health really took a hit this past week, due to work stuff. I suffer from depression as well, but my meds are keeping me stable, so at least there's that.

I didn't know Emily and Kumail had a new podcast out, i used to listen ( occasionally ) to Indoor Kids even though i'm not a gamer. I love listening to Emily whenever she guests on podcasts, i'll go and take a listen.

[DannytheWall 196]

On 4/25/2020 at 2:51 AM, DrGuts1003 said:

Everyone seemed confused about the ending and what happened to Vin, but given that this movie is basically one big cheat when it comes to what is and is not real, isn't it possible that the "happy ending" is just a new simulation by Guy Pearce and his company?  What if they realized that their current motivation story wasn't working anymore and developed a new story that made him think he had killed off the team and was now free, when in reality he is still being manipulated by Pearce?

 

I picked up on what you thought, too. The lines in the sunset scene goes something like Bloodshot saying "It's like a dream" and the woman agrees by saying "It is." Don't do that to me, movie!  

The "ending" I think the hosts were confused about was about the nature of Vin's character at the end, which Runcible gave a good take on, above.

I half-picture some kind of deleted scene with KT and Wiggins using a vacuum cleaner or waving around a big magnet that is picking up nannites like they're those fuzzy black iron filaments we played with as a kid. Scoop 'em all up and plug them into something and wait for them to rebuild Ray Garrison somehow, despite basic physics. I mean, we've been ignoring the laws of conservation of mass for an hour and 40 minutes anyway, so why not here too?  

But then I get thinking, really, if they had to re-build Bloodshot from scratch, where are they getting all the raw material and capital and infrastructure to take what was once a skyscraper and duplicate it into a RV trailer.   
 

 

[DannytheWall 196]

Did I miss something? Because my question is, did Ray Garrison ever get called Bloodshot at all during the movie? Is it a codename for the process or some other thing? Would anyone who comes into this movie and doesn't know that it comes from a comic book called "Bloodshot" know what the movie title was referring to?

And what kind of name is Bloodshot? Because his blood is ... shot with nannites? Because he ... shoots people with guns and they bleed? I kid 'cause I love. I was a comic book fan in the 90s. This was coming from same era when a very common satire was to make a compound word for a hero name taking something randomly from column A and column B. After all, this was the decade that gave us names like Hellboy, Witchblade, Shadowhawk, Shatterstar, Ripclaw, Bloodwynd, etc etc. And, yes, even Deadpool.  

[Cameron H. 23786]

30 minutes ago, DannytheWall said:

Did I miss something? Because my question is, did Ray Garrison ever get called Bloodshot at all during the movie? Is it a codename for the process or some other thing? Would anyone who comes into this movie and doesn't know that it comes from a comic book called "Bloodshot" know what the movie title was referring to?

And what kind of name is Bloodshot? Because his blood is ... shot with nannites? Because he ... shoots people with guns and they bleed? I kid 'cause I love. I was a comic book fan in the 90s. This was coming from same era when a very common satire was to make a compound word for a hero name taking something randomly from column A and column B. After all, this was the decade that gave us names like Hellboy, Witchblade, Shadowhawk, Shatterstar, Ripclaw, Bloodwynd, etc etc. And, yes, even Deadpool.  

Should...we come up with our on 90’s superheroes?

How about:

Plasma Bandyt

Stargash

Shrednaught

Crashdown

Ripsaw

Terrorbait

Scar Crow

Slipshift

Dreamthief 

Thunderbeak

Shadowlight