Episode 130 - Teen Witch

[EllenM 943]

I'm sorry, but Deanna Cheng from 1:04:54 - 1:05:25

 

Everything about that is awful. Her snotty voice and attitude, plus the ultimate point behind what she's saying: movies aren't good enough for her so she only watches trash tv- she's an asshole.

 

I'm with Deanna though in terms of being disappointed by movies, it's partially why I've never gone back and watched the original Star Wars trilogy. A decade of hype is not going to make me watch the films through "80's vision" and realize what an achievement they were at the time.

 

Quick question then: do you have problems with June's voice?

 

I can hear the nuances between them but they are quite similar, being sisters and all. June's been a guest on the Bitch Sesh podcast, talking about Real Housewives. Would you make the same assessment of her because she too enjoys trashy Bravo programming?

 

[H.P.Hovercraft 119]

Would commenting about Teen Witch at this point be the equivalent of talking about the Speed 2 episode?

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Would commenting about Teen Witch at this point be the equivalent of talking about the Speed 2 episode?

Yes and no haha.

 

They will probably air the mini-ep tomorrow or Friday which means that Paul has probably already recorded it, and after 16 pages there is a high chance that what you want to comment on has already been commented on.

 

Then again at this point I say fuck it and discuss what you want to discuss, man.

[DanEngler 5249]

Then again at this point I say fuck it and discuss what you want to discuss, man.

You know who the real asshole is? Anyone who gave Turbo Kid a bad review.

 

[H.P.Hovercraft 119]

Yes and no haha.

 

They will probably air the mini-ep tomorrow or Friday which means that Paul has probably already recorded it, and after 16 pages there is a high chance that what you want to comment on has already been commented on.

 

Then again at this point I say fuck it and discuss what you want to discuss, man.

 

It's funny, I've listened to every episode of this show but I never felt so compelled to comment before this movie (hence the delay in registration to verification etc.) I don't even have much to say about it, it's like it has taken the meaning of all words away! I just can't get over that how much this movie, so obviously for and about teen girls, was made by people who so obviously despise teen girls.

That said, Viva Deanna! She was great, she and June riffing on their childhood was perfect for the movie, and I love that she admitted she was 'meh' about films. There is so much media and so little time, enjoy what you want.

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

While I was watching the movie, and they were trying out for the play, I picked up the line where Hatz says something to the effect of "You're not Louise right now; you're Ondine." I'm relatively well-read, so I was curious as to what play they were performing and who exactly this "Ondine" was, so I scheduled a quick consult with Dr. Wikipedia, and was pretty surprised by what I learned. Apparently, Ondine was a play by Jean Giraudoux and has more than a little in common with Teen Witch.

 

In the play, knight-errant Hans (football player, Brad) is on a quest where he meets, and immediately falls in love with, a magical water-sprite named Ondine (Luis Guzman). The problem is that he is already betrothed to his "dark angel" Bertha (girlfriend Randa). Hans jilts his betrothed in favor of Ondine despite them coming from two different worlds (popular vs. unpopular). Eventually, after a period of time with Ondine, Hans deceives her in favor of his original betrothed (Brad's constant vacillating between Randa and Luis). Ondine vanishes (Luis declines Brad's invite to the dance), but later they meet up again where it becomes clear that Hans still loves Ondine (the final dance).

 

It is important to note though, that in the play, the condition by which they are allowed to be together is contingent on Hans not deceiving Ondine. If he ever left her, it would mean his death. This is significant because, in Teen Witch, Brad does end up going to the dance with Randa. At the end of the play, Ondine, as a "creature from another world" is sentenced to death, and because he was not faithful to her, Hans is to die as well. As she is being led off to be executed, she is granted a magical boon. Since she ultimately used her powers for good, a spell is cast upon Ondine that at the moment of Hans' death she will forget him entirely, thus alleviating some of the pain of losing her Love. However, this also means that they will not be able to reunite in the After Life. They share a kiss and he dies. As the play ends, Ondine looks at the body of Hans at her feet and says, "What a pity! How I should have loved him!"

 

It's simply tragic that this movie borrowed so heavily from the play Ondine, but failed to have the balls to follow it all the way through to the end. How epic would this movie have been if after the dance, as Luis is being led away to be burned at the stake, she sees the corpse of Brad on the floor and says, "He's so hot! I wish a guy like that would ask me to a dance?" At least then this movie could have a message other than, "being a shallow douche is cool."

 

is this based on the same ondine?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cn7AQe8SqVA

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

I think I see a few of your points Cameron H, particularly the point that she is obviously dismissing crap movies along with good ones. But I don't agree that Paul provoked this. She had considered all of this before, it wasn't a spur-of-the-moment thing. Paul just asked her to elaborate.

 

I don't think her excuse about time investment holds water; I don't believe that she never watches 2 hours of tv, so that she never has the time to watch a movie. She was clearly comparing reality tv to movies, not good tv to bad movies. She made no mention of good tv.

 

I think that reality tv (as part of celebrity culture) is a genuine vice, it's awful for humanity on several fronts, and there are (preliminary) studies backing this up. At some point they will fully prove that 'ironically' watching stupid reality tv 'people' so that you can feel smarter and better than them actually makes you stupider and more vicious while you do it. I would bet the farm on it. A guilty pleasure is one thing. Nothing but guilty pleasure is gross.

 

I don't particularly agree with taylorannephoto that I'm calling her an asshole for "merely for expressing an opinion".

You called the woman an "asshole" for sharing her opinion on movies.

(Man or woman is irrelevant to me here, whatever you may be doing rhetorically with 'the woman' instead of 'her'. If the read on 'reality tv' is that it is girl-stuff, believe me that I'm just as critical of typical guy-stuff trash media as well. The superhero movie narrative is a different kind of 'dangerously stupid', but it's just as bad. Those guys who love nothing but that are assholes, too.)

 

Here's why I don't agree:

Deanna has acted, written, directed and produced. She basically bragged about: 5 years, no movies, and reality/trash tv instead. Her example was a movie (Steve Jobs) by a sensitive and intelligent director (who I am not a super-fan of, that isn't my point here). She's in entertainment, her opinion contains values about who makes worthwhile stuff, and she's a public person. So, yeah, I will pass judgement on her and her opinion, which makes her a philistine and a snob at once (quite the combo), not to mention dismissive of someone exponentially more talented than she is. Not only did she miss a bunch of important movies as someone in the field, but she's a comedian who missed Bridesmaids, The World's End, Pitch Perfect, What We Do in the Shadows, etc.

 

There is an anti-art, anti-intellectual trait of priding oneself on watching only schlock, and being contemptuously dismissive of other content, (for being pretentious, or not cool enough, or boring etc). It's a thing people do. At some point the irony dissipates and that's just what you like and value now: garbage.

This may not be precisely what she's doing (i.e. she watched neither good nor bad movies), but it is essentially what she's doing because she swapped Twelve Years a Slave, Zero Dark Thirty, Before Midnight, Spotlight and Inside Llewyn Davis for voyeuristic slumming, which doesn't disappoint her as readily......... ffs

Big, popular, unchallenging, ego-stroking tentpole movies and reality tv are defended to the death by the same people who won't see anything challenging or subtle or unconventional etc. I call them assholes.

 

(...yes, there is/was an academic argument for this suspicion of "high art", or critique of the 'tradition of quality' that started out well, by refusing to value only 'luxury highbrow art for the rich'. It went through a few iterations in music, fine art, film, and so on. But the argument drifts into nihilism at some point when the highbrow stuff has something to say and doesn't make money, and the profitable trash is what supports the status quo. Academic nihilism is still nihilism, and this argument that "it's all evaluatively the same" is philistine dogshit.

And as far as media control goes, there may not be many 'folk-art movies' that can break through and enter people's eyeballs, but there's zero 'folk-art reality tv'. She missed Fruitvale Station, too. That was made for $900K and it had flaws, so it probably would have disappointed her. She watched Kardashians instead.)

 

Anyway, I'll shut up about this now. I understand why this doesn't rise to 'asshole' status for most people.

 

Oh, also, our country is in serious danger of electing a reality tv star to the presidency.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

So, basically, you don't like tv. Fair enough.

 

I think you're still projecting a lot of your opinions about others onto something she said for 30 seconds about how she spends her time watching stuff she knows she likes instead of taking a risk on something she might not.

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

So, basically, you don't like tv. Fair enough.

 

I think you're still projecting a lot of your opinions about others onto something she said for 30 seconds about how she spends her time watching stuff she knows she likes instead of taking a risk on something she might not.

 

That is some willful misinterpretation, buddy.

 

When did I say I don't like tv, and how does what she said boil down to nothing but "here's how I like to spend my time" when she's an actor/writer/director/producer??

 

 

 

Quick question then: do you have problems with June's voice?

 

 

No, just how I interpret her tone, inflections, etc during those 30 seconds.

 

Oh, also, taylorannephoto, you know she didn't see Dope, right, because she felt like 16 and Pregnant was a safer bet. So I fully support your gif quote there.

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

"It's just a joke" is one of those things that people who are being dickheads like to say when they are called out for being dickheads. It's up there with "I'm just playing devil's advocate." It's code for "I'm a coward who wants to say racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/whatever shit and hide behind the joke so people don't think I'm actually that way."

 

So what a joke's about matter, right?

Agreed.

 

"It's just a reality tv show"

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I don't particularly agree with taylorannephoto that I'm calling her an asshole for "merely for expressing an opinion".

 

(Man or woman is irrelevant to me here, whatever you may be doing rhetorically with 'the woman' instead of 'her'. If the read on 'reality tv' is that it is girl-stuff, believe me that I'm just as critical of typical guy-stuff trash media as well. The superhero movie narrative is a different kind of 'dangerously stupid', but it's just as bad. Those guys who love nothing but that are assholes, too.)

That's how it appeared to me so that's what I commented on. Paul asked her to elaborate on her opinion and she did. So to an outside party it would appear you were just attacking her for stating said opinion because it happens to differ from your own. My only problem with your post was that you called her an asshole and honestly I'm still not sure why you did because nothing of what you wrote seemed to have been given off during those 30 seconds.

 

I wasn't trying to make it any kind of gender comment it was just how it came out. Deanna is in fact a woman and you did call her an asshole. In my mind my phrasing was more to emphasize the fact that you called a human an asshole for their taste in media.

 

I am not a fan of reality tv either and understand all of your points about it but there was just so much anger behind your statement that prompted me to respond to you.

 

It does kind of boil down to that's how she likes to spend her free time. Angela Bassett just said on The Nerdist podcast today that she loves watching trash tv because it helps her tune out and she doesn't have to spend anymore brain energy when she just spent so much acting her ass off. How can we assume that Deanna is not the same way? She works her ass off in this industry and maybe just wants to turn her brain off when she's actually consuming stuff.

[Cameron H. 23786]

[taylor anne photo 11311]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrotsEzgEpg

[Cameron H. 23786]

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

That is some willful misinterpretation, buddy.

 

When did I say I don't like tv, and how does what she said boil down to nothing but "here's how I like to spend my time" when she's an actor/writer/director/producer??

 

I already quoted this last page, but I'll do it again:

 

"I don't have the strength to be disappointed. It's like, I can sit and watch as much trash tv as you wanna throw my way, but if I'm gonna commit to a two-hour movie, I have a lot of expectations, and I want too much probably. And this delivered, so thank you."

 

Like I said, she means that she's going to watch something she knows she likes. You're putting way more words in her mouth.

 

Also, I meant to say "you don't like reality tv," but I was on my phone, and I didn't realize I omitted a word. It really sounds like you're just upset that someone likes reality tv. If that's how she wants to spend her time, fine. I don't get this mindset of calling someone an asshole because they want to spend their time doing different things than I do.

 

If you were forced to watch it with her, fine. But instead, you're railing against someone for saying, "I know that I like this thing, and if I spend two hours on it, I know I'm going to like that thing. If I spend two hours on another thing, I don't know if I'm going to like it or not, and it bums when out when I don't, so I'm going to watch the thing I know I like."

 

 

So what a joke's about matter, right?

Agreed.

 

"It's just a reality tv show"

Did you just compare someone liking reality tv to someone making hateful statements under the guise of a joke?

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I dunno. I kind of see what Deanna is saying about her expectations being too high for movies. Like movies here are $15, plus walking to the theater and if you want food it's a lot more. So if I'm going to get off my ass to see a movie, I want to be sure it's good. Deanna mentioned seeing STEVE JOBS with her dad and being let down. I can see how getting burned a couple times might make you think, "I'm gonna just stay home and watch TV." No money. NO effort. No expectations. I imagine in LA there is an extra annoyance of having to park.

 

Also most of her writing/directing credits seem to be on TV shows and web series so maybe she gets extra out of it. Fun and work.

[RyanSz 3140]

Since we probably have a couple of days left until the mini comes up, I was just wondering if anyone has had, dare I say, the pleasure of watching Fuller House? I tried watching it the other day, and I swear to God, it was like playing a game of chicken with my sanity. I turned it off at exactly one minute and thirty-three seconds. I put it on again this morning and made it an additional five minutes (right around the time Mr. Woodchuck made his triumphant return) before I had to take another step back.

 

However, the good news is, I think I may have come up with a new forum game we can play while we wait for a new episode of HDTGM. It's a little something I like to call "Cameron H's Fuller House of Madness." Basically, we pick an episode at random which we all agree to watch tonight. We watch it for as long as we can until the overwhelming inanity of the show forces us to turn it off. Whoever can endure the longest, is the... winner, I guess?

 

Basic rules:

 

1) Honor system rules apply--although I'm not sure anyone wants to brag that they watched a full episode.

2) Once you turn it off, you're done. You can't take a break and come back to it later.

3) No electronic devices or other distractions. Attention must be paid in full to the episode. Doing anything other than watching the episode is grounds for immediate disqualification.

4) You have to watch at least two minutes of the show.

5) We cannot pick an episode that someone has already watched. For instance, it can't be the first episode since I have a six minute advantage on everyone else. Or, if people want to do an episode that someone has watched, the person who has already watched it would be required to recuse themselves from that particular challenge.

 

So, what do you all think? Are you brave enough to accept the challenge?

 

I could barely get through the trailers for this, as it comes off as the worst 2000s Disney live action show. It also comes off kinda sad for all of the actors involved because it seems like this is the only option that they had as actors.

[RyanSz 3140]

You know who the real asshole is? Anyone who gave Turbo Kid a bad review.

 

GNOME STICK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bn47Bwfc7E4

[mattsternbate 0]

More Deanna!

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

Good points. I'm thumbs-upping the posts because they're articulate and normative in a good way.

 

But between what she said, and what her tone seemed to imply, I'll stand by my original take.

I know I'm arguing from an outlandish position, not any of you. I've already explained what I heard her tone doing in between the lines. She could generally be a great person for all I know, but I'd say it's in spite of a love for reality tv (i.e. studies showing that reality tv viewers value things like vengeance, status, gossip, bullying etc more than most people, although the causation could go either direction).

 

Elektra, I took Deanna at her word about 'no movies for 5 years' as opposed to 'no movies in theaters for 5 years'. I don't think movies are going to save humanity. I think proudly holding up reality tv compared to them is disgusting, especially from someone in the business.

 

Did you just compare someone liking reality tv to someone making hateful statements under the guise of a joke?

 

It sounds like you're tying together the wrong threads of comparison, here. Drop out the 'someone liking' bit.

I am comparing reality tv to genuinely hateful jokes in their overall harmfulness.

The former is subtle and politically undefined, the latter is obvious and politically defined.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Good points. I'm thumbs-upping the posts because they're articulate and normative in a good way.

 

But between what she said, and what her tone seemed to imply, I'll stand by my original take.

I know I'm arguing from an outlandish position, not any of you. I've already explained what I heard her tone doing in between the lines.

 

Elektra, I took Deanna at her word about 'no movies for 5 years' as opposed to 'no movies in theaters for 5 years'. I don't think movies are going to save humanity. I think proudly holding up reality tv compared to them is disgusting.

 

 

 

It sounds like you're tying together the wrong threads of comparison, here. Drop out the 'someone liking' bit.

I am comparing reality tv to genuinely hateful jokes in their overall harmfulness.

The former is subtle and politically undefined, the latter is obvious and politically defined.

 

First of all, I just want to say, I appreciate a good controversy, and while I don't agree with you specifically on the Deanna thing, I do think you make some valid points about Reality television in general. I agree with you that it is objectively terrible and brings very little to the table from a societal stand point. I certainly don't relish the idea that future generations will look back on this period of time and think that this is our "art." That is utterly embarrassing. The fact that I can refresh my news feed at any time, and without fail, be bombarded by at least one story about a Kardashian is very frustrating.

 

I just want to let you know that I agree with you that Reality TV, as it reflects our culture as a whole, is not really a great thing, but I do stand by my assertion, that on an individual and personal level, it's relatively harmless and people should be able to consume whatever media they wish. I think Reality TV, as with most things, is fine in moderation, but becomes a problem when it becomes an obsession.

 

Thank you for the engaging conversation!

[Spark 0]

I know I'm late to the conversation, but did anyone else notice the audience at the Shana concert were waving vegetables?

 

[Cinco DeNio 5290]

One thing I learned from Blake Harris' article. Michael Damian (singer, actor) is the brother of Larry Weir, the music composer!

[RyanSz 3140]

Am I the only one who got confused at times thinking Deanna sounded a little bit like Jessica St. Clair doing Wompler?

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

Me, during this whole Deanna controversy...