Episode 130 - Teen Witch

[FisterRoboto 7499]

But...bringing this back to the world of comedy, dead horses (and the beating of them), and lazy jokes, can we all agree that if ever there was a time when a "Two in the _____, one in the _____" was funny, that time has long since passed? Not that I was ever a die hard fan of it, but I had to totally give up watching @Midnight because of this. There was a period where one cut-rate comedian or another would make some variation of this joke in like every other episode. Finally I was like, "Okay, I'm done with this."

I had to give up @Midnight because I couldn't take Chris Hardwick's pandering or fake laughter anymore.

[SolSallee 4]

Big ups to rapper Serengeti for covering Top That! (Well, the chorus at least)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVNRbWfJ2_M

 

Also I'll have to check but I'm almost positive 1983's Wild Style had a rap battle in the house party scene, BUT Teen Witch surely had the first and most white rap battle on film at this time.

[Cameron H. 23786]

I had to give up @Midnight because I couldn't take Chris Hardwick's pandering or fake laughter anymore.

 

Well...yes, that was problematic as well. In his defense, I will say he's pretty funny, seems really intelligent, he's very handsome, and if I was ever in a discussion with him about social issues, movies, or comic books, we'd be an intolerable echo chamber of, "I TOTALLY agree with you..." However, his frequent use of his comedy game show as a podium to espouse his politics, to a room that is probably already in line with most (if not all) his views on the subject, was pretty obnoxious.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

Holy cow! This sounds terrible! It amazes me how many comedians get by on shock value alone. I think it says something about how some personalities just crave attention regardless of whether or not that attention is good or bad. Rape and pedophilia are a couple of subjects that I feel like are real danger zones. Personally, I think those are subjects that are better left untouched in comedy, but if you (for some insane reason) feel the need to make "that" joke, a certain amount of nuance is required for it to work. For instance, I think the HDTGM episode of Over the Top does it pretty well and I think the reason for this is the gang (particularly Jason and Bobby) weren't using "I" statements. There's a huge difference between, "Stallone is going to rape his son!" and "I'm going to rape that kid." For an example of a HDTGM episode where I felt like the joke wasn't done well, I'd point to Con Air where the guest implied that Steve Buscemi and a 6 year old girl had consensual sex. At the time I was just thinking, "What in the holy fuck, dude?!? That's totally uncalled for and not even remotely funny!"

 

(Sorry, to get all heavy. I'm just really sensitive to all this kind of bullshit anyway, and it doesn't help that, just a couple of days ago, a co-worker of mine, a man that I've known for years, and has offered on more than one occasion to babysit my son, was just put in jail for molesting a little girl. I swear to God, sometimes I hope there's a Hell. I can deal with murderers--not that murder is ever good, but I get temporary insanity or whatever you want to call it--but rapists and pedophiles can fucking burn!)

 

But...bringing this back to the world of comedy, dead horses (and the beating of them), and lazy jokes, can we all agree that if ever there was a time when a "Two in the _____, one in the _____" was funny, that time has long since passed? Not that I was ever a die hard fan of it, but I had to totally give up watching @Midnight because of this. There was a period where one cut-rate comedian or another would make some variation of this joke in like every other episode. Finally I was like, "Okay, I'm done with this."

What the fuuuuuck I hope that man burns as well! That's mind blowingly fucked up!

 

Paul F Tompkins actually did an amazing video about comedy and dark subjects that summed up my feelings on it exactly! (If I find it again I'll post it) But I think the tl;dr version of it is of course you can joke about things but it's how you joke about those things. I think that sometimes the HDTGM crew can very much walk that line but we've actually discussed this before that it's who is the punchline that can make or break the joke. If you are making a joke about rape and the punchline is that someone was raped then that's not funny that's fucked up. If you are making a joke about rape and the punchline is that the rapist is someone that can burn in hell and this society doesn't treat survivors fairly (which I've heard plenty of female comedians do sooo well) then that can actually be really funny and doesn't harm anyone in the process.

 

And I can't even comment on Chris Hardwick because I'm a total fangirl who has traveled to other states multiple times just to see him perform so I am too biased to contribute. I love him a lot.

 

EDIT: Thank the lord that PFT doesn't update his tumblr as often as I thought so it was still on the first page.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufz4W0puLPA

[FisterRoboto 7499]

And I can't even comment on Chris Hardwick because I'm a total fangirl who has traveled to other states multiple times just to see him perform so I am too biased to contribute. I love him a lot.

I think I would like him a lot more if he didn't need to remind me how big a nerd he is every 12 seconds.

 

But fortunately, we can agree on PFT and how magnificent he is (I do watch @midnight every time he's on, but that's about it)

[RyanSz 3140]

 

Well...yes, that was problematic as well. In his defense, I will say he's pretty funny, seems really intelligent, he's very handsome, and if I was ever in a discussion with him about social issues, movies, or comic books, we'd be an intolerable echo chamber of, "I TOTALLY agree with you..." However, his frequent use of his comedy game show as a podium to espouse his politics, to a room that is probably already in line with most (if not all) his views on the subject, was pretty obnoxious.

I'm not even going to jump in on the DLM chat since I'm a couple months behind on episodes and only really listen to ones that have people I like on. I basically stopped @Midnight when my DVR was screwing up recording it and I didn't bother to try and fix it, though I guess I could catch up on Hulu. Yet what turned me off of it was his use of a 22 minute show to spend 5 minutes ranting about some cause of his. On social issues I keep my opinions to myself and could care less about anyone else's, so when I tune in to a comedy game show and the host makes himself the focal point for a quarter of the show while the guests awkwardly wait to start the show, I just don't see a reason to keep tuning in. Especially when you have guests like Ron Funches, PFT, or Doug Benson, who absolutely kill it on that show and you notice the scores bouncing around wildly because they have had to edit so much in order to accommodate Hardwick's rant, it's just a sucky feeling.

[SlidePocket 707]

This topic now has the second highest amount of replies ever!

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

I'm sorry, but Deanna Cheng from 1:04:54 - 1:05:25

 

Everything about that is awful. Her snotty voice and attitude, plus the ultimate point behind what she's saying: movies aren't good enough for her so she only watches trash tv- she's an asshole.

[Joven 373]

Kettles in glass houses shouldn't look in the mirror, or something.

[WallabyKeeper 0]

There was something so specifically familiar/ever-so-off about this movie that I just couldn't put my finger on... and I finally realized what it is.

 

I feel like a lot of the "Teen Witch" script might have been inspired by one afternoon of eavesdropping on a group of kindergarten girls "playing high school" during recess. Seriously, put any scene of the movie into that context and suddenly A LOT of it suddenly makes perfect sense:

 

"OK, we're in the girls' locker room, so we're dancing and wearing purple leotards and practicing our 'cheer'! It goes: 'I LIKE BOYS!!! I LIKE BOYS!!! I LIKE BOYS!!!'"

 

"Now we are in a class about SEX! So we all have to say: 'CONDOMS! CONDOMS! CONDOMS!!!!'"

 

"I'm a witch now!!! I went into this house and a witch told me that I have witch powers too, and, I'm going to marry my crush!!!"

 

"A GROSS boy BURPS on me! And then later he yells, 'Wanna smoke SOME WEED?!?' And he drives a car like THIS: 'AAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!'"

 

There are truly too many other examples to share, esp. on a first post, esp. this late after the ep! But, I just had to share this conspiracy theory... because I believe in it that much.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Since we probably have a couple of days left until the mini comes up, I was just wondering if anyone has had, dare I say, the pleasure of watching Fuller House? I tried watching it the other day, and I swear to God, it was like playing a game of chicken with my sanity. I turned it off at exactly one minute and thirty-three seconds. I put it on again this morning and made it an additional five minutes (right around the time Mr. Woodchuck made his triumphant return) before I had to take another step back.

 

However, the good news is, I think I may have come up with a new forum game we can play while we wait for a new episode of HDTGM. It's a little something I like to call "Cameron H's Fuller House of Madness." Basically, we pick an episode at random which we all agree to watch tonight. We watch it for as long as we can until the overwhelming inanity of the show forces us to turn it off. Whoever can endure the longest, is the... winner, I guess?

 

Basic rules:

 

1) Honor system rules apply--although I'm not sure anyone wants to brag that they watched a full episode.

2) Once you turn it off, you're done. You can't take a break and come back to it later.

3) No electronic devices or other distractions. Attention must be paid in full to the episode. Doing anything other than watching the episode is grounds for immediate disqualification.

4) You have to watch at least two minutes of the show.

5) We cannot pick an episode that someone has already watched. For instance, it can't be the first episode since I have a six minute advantage on everyone else. Or, if people want to do an episode that someone has watched, the person who has already watched it would be required to recuse themselves from that particular challenge.

 

So, what do you all think? Are you brave enough to accept the challenge?

 

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I'm sorry, but Deanna Cheng from 1:04:54 - 1:05:25

 

Everything about that is awful. Her snotty voice and attitude, plus the ultimate point behind what she's saying: movies aren't good enough for her so she only watches trash tv- she's an asshole.

Oh you're so right! Someone that has different tastes and admits that one kind of media just isn't their thing is such an asshole!

 

[OoofMaGOOF 348]

Posted 22 February 2016 - 01:15 PM

So can we expect the next mini ep a week from Wednesday, and then Ep 131 the Thursday after that?

 

Seriously though folks

I wasn't even joking!

[OoofMaGOOF 348]

I'm sorry, but Deanna Cheng from 1:04:54 - 1:05:25

 

Everything about that is awful. Her snotty voice and attitude, plus the ultimate point behind what she's saying: movies aren't good enough for her so she only watches trash tv- she's an asshole.

 

 

This is a very, very oddly specific timecode and complaint. Did you make a movie she didn't want to watch or something?

[firsttimecallerlongtimelistenr 3590]

she's an asshole.

 

maybe this was a compliment ... i mean, can you imagine a world without assholes??? seriously .. its one of the most important parts of pretty much every animal on the planet.

 

lets stop for a second and consider how important assholes are ... if you didnt have one ... then theres really only one other route for your excrement to come out of ... the same way it went in!

 

then if someone turned to you and said "hey .. youre talking shit right now!" ... it would be a near 100% accurate statement ... especially if youre talking with your mouth full

 

have a nice day

[Benicio Del Bore-O 132]

Listen specifically to what she actually says and how she says it. Don't just try to remember, give it another listen. Then tell me if you want to defend her opinion, attitude and values as beyond critique. Go ahead and critique my opinion, attitude and values on this, but give a few reasons, because she didn't say this off the cuff, she meant it.

 

Is this really a matter of merely "different tastes"? Is media just ice cream flavors, or does what you spend your time watching and what you value affect you as a person? Is valuing a steady indulgence in trash/reality tv, all while cultivating a self-important disdain for media that's at least trying to go deeper (Steve Jobs was her example) because it's never good enough for you, something that a narcissistic philistine would value? She makes media for chrissakes. Guilty pleasures are fun, yes, but her entire diet is junk food.

Is this narcissism? Does she watch only stupid stuff so she can feel smarter than it? Does she dismiss stuff that aims higher as not up to her standard, so that she can imagine her standard as supreme?

 

I'm not trying to thread-hijack here. But if you think I'm entirely wrong, be specific at least.

 

And I'm criticizing a media professional's public opinion about media.

Let's not react like I'm criticizing a random person for their guess at something outside of their specialization.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Listen specifically to what she actually says and how she says it. Don't just try to remember, give it another listen. Then tell me if you want to defend her opinion, attitude and values as beyond critique. Go ahead and critique my opinion, attitude and values on this, but give a few reasons, because she didn't say this off the cuff, she meant it.

 

Is this really a matter of merely "different tastes"? Is media just ice cream flavors, or does what you spend your time watching and what you value affect you as a person? Is valuing a steady indulgence in trash/reality tv, all while cultivating a self-important disdain for media that's at least trying to go deeper (Steve Jobs was her example) because it's never good enough for you, something that a narcissistic philistine would value? She makes media for chrissakes. Guilty pleasures are fun, yes, but her entire diet is junk food.

Is this narcissism? Does she watch only stupid stuff so she can feel smarter than it? Does she dismiss stuff that aims higher as not up to her standard, so that she can imagine her standard as supreme?

 

I'm not trying to thread-hijack here. But if you think I'm entirely wrong, be specific at least.

 

And I'm criticizing a media professional's public opinion about media.

Let's not react like I'm criticizing a random person for their guess at something outside of their specialization.

 

I have not re-listened, but I didn't really pick up up what you're putting down. Maybe that has to do with the fact that I don't really care about Deanna's tastes one way or another. This isn't to say I'm dismissive of her opinions or that they aren't valid, just that her likes and dislikes don't really affect my life in any way. Do I think it's odd she doesn't like movies? Yes and no. "Yes," in the same way I think it's weird when I meet people who say they don't like or listen to music (which is something I'll never understand), but "no" because we all have our tastes. And I don't think she was saying, "all I watch is garbage TV," but more, "given the choice, that's how I'd rather spend my time" and that is something I can totally get behind.

 

When I was in college I was a bit of a movie/literature snob, but as I've gotten older, I tend to gravitate toward lighter fare for the simple reason that, if I'm going to devote x amount of time doing this thing, I'd like for it to be a tonic to sooth my belly than be an ipecac. I spend much more time watching the "garbage" movies for this podcast than I do "quality" movies. I don't do this to feel "smarter" than the movies or that I'm afraid to be challenged. That's just my choice and my preference. For example, I'm sure Spotlight is a fantastic movie, which would undoubtedly make me feel a certain way, the question is: do I want to feel that way right now in this moment? This isn't to say that I'm ignorant of the issues the movie addresses, just that if I only have a limited amount of time to do something (e.g. sit and watch a movie) I would personally rather escape the bullshit of this world for a couple of hours than rage against injustice.

 

And don't worry about hijacking the thread. Five days after an episode, most people have already said what their going to say about the episode's movie and the conversation goes in all kinds of crazy directions. I'm as happy to talk about this as I am anything

[taylor anne photo 11311]

I don't care what your opinion on the matter is and honestly I don't care about her opinion either, and like Cameron said above it isn't because I'm dismissing either of you it's just because the opinions don't affect my life. You called the woman an "asshole" for sharing her opinion on movies. It doesn't matter who the person is (except maybe we can all agree that if it had been Trump your words would have been said with no disagreement) the fact that someone said they don't like movies and they like the Real Housewives shows does not make them deserving of being called an "asshole."

[FisterRoboto 7499]

"I don't have the strength to be disappointed. It's like, I can sit and watch as much trash tv as you wanna throw my way, but if I'm gonna commit to a two-hour movie, I have a lot of expectations, and I want too much probably. And this delivered, so thank you."

 

This pretty much sums up her point. She realizes she expects too much from movies. I see it as like when you go to a restaurant. Let's say it's somewhere you've been before, and there's one thing that you know you like. You've had it dozens of times, and when someone says, "Let's go to X place," you think, "Great. I'm gonna get Y." Are you an asshole for not wanting to try the other stuff on the menu? I don't think so. Maybe you think about getting those other things, but you don't necessarily want to be disappointed. Even if you think it might be better than the thing you know you like, what you like is your safe bet.

 

I disagree with her, obviously, because I love movies, but that doesn't mean that I can't fathom where she's coming from.

 

Is this narcissism? Does she watch only stupid stuff so she can feel smarter than it? Does she dismiss stuff that aims higher as not up to her standard, so that she can imagine her standard as supreme?.

 

I think you're putting a lot into her mouth here. I did go back and listen, and I didn't get the feeling she was trying to say that movies are beneath her or that it doesn't hold up to her standard. It's that she doesn't want to waste two hours watching something that might turn out to be a disappointment (and I agree with her about Steve Jobs). I'm doing the DLM Challenge and watching 366 movies this year, so I've had to lose a lot of my pickiness around movies and see stuff that I don't necessarily think I'll like just to hit my number (I watched The Last Witch Hunter on Monday to hit my movies for the month because it was 100 minutes and I needed two movies). That said, that's how I choose to spend my free time. And I have a significant amount of free time. If my free time were more limited, I'd probably choose solely the safe bets that I know that I like.

[Cameron H. 23786]

Okay, I'm on lunch now, so I have a little more time to process this. You asked for specifics, so I'll do my best. I'm sure there's nothing I can do to change your opinion, but I'll do my best to address your specific points.

 

Her snotty voice and attitude....

 

Right here.

 

I think you may be projecting something on her that may or may not be present. Maybe you heard an arrogant voice, but I certainly didn't. And she didn't just volunteer her opinion either. Paul brought it up, because it is a little unusual for someone to say they don't like movies, but she certainly wasn't using the podcast as a podium to denounce them either.

 

Furthermore, to call her an "asshole," based solely on her apathetic feelings toward films, doesn't really do your observation any favors.

 

Is this really a matter of merely "different tastes"?

 

I'd argue, yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking movies. However, there might be something wrong with calling someone an "asshole" because they don't share your opinions.

 

Is media just ice cream flavors, or does what you spend your time watching and what you value affect you as a person?

 

To be fair, I assume you do not personally know Deanna. You don't know what else she does with her time. Maybe movies aren't her thing. Maybe reading giant tomes of Medieval poetry is. Your argument is basically, "Does watching violent movies make someone violent or want to do violent things?" Personally, I love a good shoot 'em up, but I've never bought, nor do I ever intend to own, a gun. I also like the Fast & Furious movies, but I have never actually participated in an illegal street race. Yes, maybe what media we imbibe might have some affect on us, but to say it is the end all be all of who that person is or will ever be seems to really disregard an individual's unique and complex life.

 

Is valuing a steady indulgence in trash/reality tv, all while cultivating a self-important disdain for media that's at least trying to go deeper (Steve Jobs was her example) because it's never good enough for you, something that a narcissistic philistine would value? She makes media for chrissakes. Guilty pleasures are fun, yes, but her entire diet is junk food. Is this narcissism?

 

As I mentioned above, she never said that's ALL she watches, just that she does enjoy it. And you almost seem to be implying that all movies are trying to go "deeper." It seems to me that you want to impose a certain type of media (or movie) on her and others, because for you, it's superior. I'm not saying you are, but that sounds much more narcissistic to me...She didn't say, "I don't like movies, and if you do, you're an asshole. Like what I like!"

 

 

Does she watch only stupid stuff so she can feel smarter than it? Does she dismiss stuff that aims higher as not up to her standard, so that she can imagine her standard as supreme?

 

Again, I think you are ascribing attitudes that just aren't there. If you don't know her personally, how can you even begin to guess at how she feels about something?

 

 

And I'm criticizing a media professional's public opinion about media.

 

She's not exactly running Sony Pictures or anything. If the head of Disney said, "Man, movies are a waste of my time!" then I think you'd have a more valid argument. As it stands though, she seems to be primarily a writer and a podcaster. There's a local radio personality in my city who has also stated on numerous occasions that he doesn't like movies. He's a media professional. Should we call for his resignation?

 

Sorry man, I just wanted to be thorough in my response since I realized my initial response maybe didn't address all your points. No hard feelings. And I'm more than willing to continue this discussion as two rational, civilized adults.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

I also like the Fast & Furious movies, but I have never actually participated in an illegal street race.

WHY NOT, CAMERON?! WHAT ARE YOU DOING WITH YOUR LIFE?!

[GiveMeYourBaby 102]

Paul F Tompkins actually did an amazing video about comedy and dark subjects that summed up my feelings on it exactly! (If I find it again I'll post it) But I think the tl;dr version of it is of course you can joke about things but it's how you joke about those things. I think that sometimes the HDTGM crew can very much walk that line but we've actually discussed this before that it's who is the punchline that can make or break the joke. If you are making a joke about rape and the punchline is that someone was raped then that's not funny that's fucked up. If you are making a joke about rape and the punchline is that the rapist is someone that can burn in hell and this society doesn't treat survivors fairly (which I've heard plenty of female comedians do sooo well) then that can actually be really funny and doesn't harm anyone in the process.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ufz4W0puLPA

 

I love this. I am definitely going reference this video in the future when someone defends something offensive with "it's just a joke" "stop censoring comedy" etc.

[OoofMaGOOF 348]

Listen specifically to what she actually says and how she says it. Don't just try to remember, give it another listen. Then tell me if you want to defend her opinion, attitude and values as beyond critique. Go ahead and critique my opinion, attitude and values on this, but give a few reasons, because she didn't say this off the cuff, she meant it.

 

Is this really a matter of merely "different tastes"? Is media just ice cream flavors, or does what you spend your time watching and what you value affect you as a person? Is valuing a steady indulgence in trash/reality tv, all while cultivating a self-important disdain for media that's at least trying to go deeper (Steve Jobs was her example) because it's never good enough for you, something that a narcissistic philistine would value? She makes media for chrissakes. Guilty pleasures are fun, yes, but her entire diet is junk food.

Is this narcissism? Does she watch only stupid stuff so she can feel smarter than it? Does she dismiss stuff that aims higher as not up to her standard, so that she can imagine her standard as supreme?

 

I'm not trying to thread-hijack here. But if you think I'm entirely wrong, be specific at least.

 

And I'm criticizing a media professional's public opinion about media.

Let's not react like I'm criticizing a random person for their guess at something outside of their specialization.

 

I just don't understand why it's THAT upsetting to you. Why is it such a big deal? Why do you feel the need to call her an "asshole"?

 

Like, really?

[OoofMaGOOF 348]

Furthermore, to call her an "asshole," based solely on her apathetic feelings toward films, doesn't really do your observation any favors.

 

I'd argue, yes. There's absolutely nothing wrong with not liking movies. However, there might be something wrong with calling someone an "asshole" because they don't share your opinions.

 

Daaaaaaammmnnnn Cameron, back at it AGAIN with the well written post! Better than I said it.

[FisterRoboto 7499]

 

I love this. I am definitely going reference this video in the future when someone defends something offensive with "it's just a joke" "stop censoring comedy" etc.

"It's just a joke" is one of those things that people who are being dickheads like to say when they are called out for being dickheads. It's up there with "I'm just playing devil's advocate." It's code for "I'm a coward who wants to say racist/sexist/homophobic/transphobic/whatever shit and hide behind the joke so people don't think I'm actually that way."