Suicide Squad (2016)

[Colfax McLiverneck 352]

You must do this movie right now. I'll get the popcorn ready.

[RyanSz 3140]

Why, it's nowhere near as bad as better candidates like Elektra or the recent Fantastic Four. While it's main problem is what has plagued other DC movies in that they expect their audience to know the source material, the characters are portrayed very well by the actors chosen, who outside of Cara Delevinge as Enchantress who was just kinda awkward and for the majority of the movie.

 

And while people will say Jared Leto's Joker is weak, I actually really enjoyed the portrayal, for how limited in the film it was. The problem is people compare each performance of the Joker to another, which really doesn't work as it's like trying to compare the various generations of Batman films to one another, they each have different approaches based on the works that they are adapting. This version of the Joker works perfectly in this world as it pulls from the Joker graphic novel and the more recent iteration in the New 52 of DC comics.

[ElieB 238]

*SPOILERS*

I mean, sure. Fantastic 4 was a funnier mess of a movie. But This one isn't so far off dude. The actors might not have been the problem but it was still a total trash fire of directing, editing, soundtracking, writing... And the joker was fucking terrible. Not that it mattered to the movie cause he barely qualified as a subplot. I think he had like 5 lines all movie long and laughed once. He should be an asshole that just doesn't shut up. Granted he did this thing where he never closed his dumb gaping mouth but he wasn't ever saying anything, just making this stupid catfish face. Did he even kill anyone himself? Third act was boring as fuck. The harmless footclan style canon fodder and portal to the sky machine were beyond cliche. Every character is a massive stereotype, whether or not theyre based on source material doesn't matter.

 

It really doesn't matter how close the characters were to source material if the overall movie is sloppy, lazy, and just total nonsense from beginning to end. Their "mission" never makes any sense and you don't even know what these footclan things are until theyve smoked about a 100 of them. One liners were pretty bad. Just about every good joke was in the trailers. The way it wants to be a gritty dark humour flick is totally contradicted by being a pg13 hackjob so it can't even commit to what its obviously trying to do. The script couldnt even follow its own internal logic most of the time... Things like headshotting bubble monsters to kill them and then saying how do you kill these things that don't even go down with headshots. What??

 

So yeah, I'd rather laugh at a bunch of half-committed 20-somethings sleepwalk thru a terrible FF4 script but Suicide Squad isn't all that better.

[ElieB 238]

Oh shit! The Flop House just released a live FF4 episode. Kinda short episode at just under an hour but should be great.

[Blast Hardcheese 636]

The actors might not have been the problem but it was still a total trash fire of directing, editing, soundtracking, writing... And the joker was fucking terrible.

 

I couldn't agree with you more. This movie is utter dog shit, and (especially) considering it's source material, it had the potential to be way, way, WAY better than what we got. Leto's turn as The Joker was abysmal. He's like more like a Juggalo who just got off his shift at Hot Topic than the vaunted "Clown Prince of Crime." His performance - and this film in general - was gross. Not fun. Not clever. Not anarchistic. Just gross. I left the theater feeling like a sucker.

 

I think the thing that gets me the most, however, is the forgiving nature of hardcore DC fans for the recent cinematic DC/WB fare. They're like battered housewives who can't admit that they're in toxic relationships. I mean, are these really the movie versions of their favorite and beloved comic book characters and stories that they are willing to accept? A silver-grilled and inked-over-with-the-most-pedestrian-tattoos Joker is the version these fans will put up with? Beyond inspiring the umpteenth Harley Quinn cosplayer with a banal and male gaze-inducing costume ideas, what use is this movie other than generating more blind devotion to a tone-deaf brand that tinkers it's properties to death?

[IRONicmerMAN 391]

Why, it's nowhere near as bad as better candidates like Elektra or the recent Fantastic Four. While it's main problem is what has plagued other DC movies in that they expect their audience to know the source material, the characters are portrayed very well by the actors chosen, who outside of Cara Delevinge as Enchantress who was just kinda awkward and for the majority of the movie.

 

And while people will say Jared Leto's Joker is weak, I actually really enjoyed the portrayal, for how limited in the film it was. The problem is people compare each performance of the Joker to another, which really doesn't work as it's like trying to compare the various generations of Batman films to one another, they each have different approaches based on the works that they are adapting. This version of the Joker works perfectly in this world as it pulls from the Joker graphic novel and the more recent iteration in the New 52 of DC comics.

 

I haven't (and probably won't) see it, but I heard Leto's Joker was basically the same thing as Heath Ledger's portrayal. Is that accurate?

[RyanSz 3140]

 

I haven't (and probably won't) see it, but I heard Leto's Joker was basically the same thing as Heath Ledger's portrayal. Is that accurate?

Not really, while there are shared mannerisms among the big three live action Jokers, they are more based around the comics of the time. Ledger's Joker was more based around the late 90s/early 2000s version of the character that was more psychotic, with no rhyme or reason behind his actions outside of taking it to Batman. Leto's Joker is based more on the New 52 versions of the Joker as well as the version from Brian Azzarello's graphic novel Joker. This one is more of a gangster who has a very public persona in the underworld and even to the general public of Gotham as a club owner/thug, he very much loves the power and lifestyle of being a criminal.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

I read David Ayer had just six months to do the script and when I read that I was like, "Oh I get it." Because it feels like a first draft. Like they didn't give him enough time and everything was hastily put together. Like I still think it is a good idea but it wasn't quite there. So maybe we can get good things out of the sequel?

 

The only thing that actually offended me was the choice to make Enchantress a South American (not British) witch because that felt unnecessary, especially considering Cara whatshereyebrows was playing her.

[RyanSz 3140]

I read David Ayer had just six months to do the script and when I read that I was like, "Oh I get it." Because it feels like a first draft. Like they didn't give him enough time and everything was hastily put together. Like I still think it is a good idea but it wasn't quite there. So maybe we can get good things out of the sequel?

 

The only thing that actually offended me was the choice to make Enchantress a South American (not British) witch because that felt unnecessary, especially considering Cara whatshereyebrows was playing her.

Yeah the eybrows were distracting for me. I have thick eyebrows myself, though not at her or Martin Scorsese's level, and I find hers to be almost distracting on her light skin. It didn't help when she was made to look even whiter but they remained the same. As for the almost assured sequel to this, I hope more time will be given to hash out the story and fix the issues with this, it's also what gives me hope for the Affleck Batman and Justice League movies as he has shown real control over the camera and can create a fleshed out story and world, enough so that WB is giving him some say in the script and final cut of the films.

 

Also can we all agree that if you are in a cave with ancient relics, don't go twisting them hoping to see what's inside. That shit NEVER ends up being good for the person doing the opening.

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

So, everyone the Squad kills is pretty much innocent, right? They're the other army guys and people of the city that were captured and turned against their will, weren't they?

[NathanGordon 1096]

I read David Ayer had just six months to do the script and when I read that I was like, "Oh I get it." Because it feels like a first draft.

I'll admit that I don't know anything about Hollywood or screenplays, but six months seems like plenty of time to me? That's what, 150 pages or so? Aukerman & friends knocked out Rocky vs Rambo in a weekend, and that's at least twice as good as Suicide Squad.

[RyanSz 3140]

So, everyone the Squad kills is pretty much innocent, right? They're the other army guys and people of the city that were captured and turned against their will, weren't they?

 

Yeah but that's a common thing in the series. The first volume they basically kill an entire stadium of football fans in the Superdome who were infected with a techno-virus that turned them into cannibals, and then with one of Waller's side deals Deadshot kills a member of the team in order for the whole incident to be blamed on him, rather than the Squad or a virus that the world doesn't know exists.

[Elektra Boogaloo 3371]

 

Yeah but that's a common thing in the series. The first volume they basically kill an entire stadium of football fans in the Superdome who were infected with a techno-virus that turned them into cannibals, and then with one of Waller's side deals Deadshot kills a member of the team in order for the whole incident to be blamed on him, rather than the Squad or a virus that the world doesn't know exists.

 

But they don't lean into it like they should! The whole time I kept wondering why Batman and Wonder Woman don't show up and fight Enchantress. There's a scene where they all realize the "things" used to be people and everyone is upset. Then it's not brought up again. It's never said, like, "Well we brought you guys do deal with this because you're murderers and you should be okay with it." (Plus it's never been established that Superman and Batman AREN'T murders because so many people die in "Man of Steel" and Batman is totes cool killing Superman in "BvS".) So the whole thing is just like... why?

 

I'll admit that I don't know anything about Hollywood or screenplays, but six months seems like plenty of time to me? That's what, 150 pages or so? Aukerman & friends knocked out Rocky vs Rambo in a weekend, and that's at least twice as good as Suicide Squad.

 

I admit I don't know how long writer/directors "usually" have to get a big budget movie like this written. But it felt short to me, considering he'd have to be thinking about how to film it as it went. I kept thinking about how Edgar Wright had been working on "Ant-man" since 2006 when he left the project in 2014. (I also think I remember Joss Whedon saying he had two years on "The Avengers" from start to finish and it didn't feel like it was enough. Ayer had less than that and he didn't have films leading up to establish the characters.)

 

ETA: It sounds like I'm defending Ayer when I really didn't like the movie that well. But I do think WB is like a chicken with its head cut off right now. They don't know what they're doing.

[Cameron H. 23786]

ETA: It sounds like I'm defending Ayer when I really didn't like the movie that well. But I do think WB is like a chicken with its head cut off right now. They don't know what they're doing.

 

But the next DC movie is going to be awesome, right guys? I saw the trailer and it looked great. Right, guys?...Right?

[Ofcoursemyhorse 1043]

I really want the Wonder Woman movie to be great because it deserves to be. But yea, it doesnt have much precedence to support that.

[taylor anne photo 11311]

If the Wonder Woman film tanks just as bad I'll give each of you three guesses as to where WB will point fingers

[ElieB 238]

If the Wonder Woman film tanks just as bad I'll give each of you three guesses as to where WB will point fingers

 

Hmmm

1. Critics

2. Women

3. Marvel/Disney conspiracy

[Auden 1809]

If the Wonder Woman film tanks just as bad I'll give each of you three guesses as to where WB will point fingers.

Number one in the firing line--Patty Jenkins. Here is what I think is happening. The Warner Bros. execs are embarking upon a risky project--a very expensive movie that features a female superhero. What if things go wrong? The execs like their jobs, they don't want to be fired, they don't want to get blamed. They need...deniability. So they hired Patty Jenkins. Her only feature-length movie was 13 years ago. After that, it was a handful of TV episodes and TV movies. She had to take the job. She knows that in Hollywood you are only as good as your last movie, so she will try very hard to make Wonder Woman a success. However, the execs are still running the show. They pretty much control every aspect of Wonder Woman. From casting, to plot, to costumes, to locations, to music. If the movie does poorly and Jenkins reveals that the movie was directed by studio notes, well, so what. She is just an inexperienced director without a strong body of work and powerful showbiz connections to back her up. Furthermore, she's a woman. No one would listen to her.

[MikeKammer 0]

Oh God yes! I would love to hear Paul, June and Zouks talk about Suicide Squad!

 

Things I want to hear them comment on (possible Spoilers ahead, but if you haven't already seen this, what are you doing here?!):

 

--The fact that Waller brags at her initial Task Force X pitch meeting with the government that she threw Deadshot (and the rest of the candidates) "in a hole, then I threw away the hole." Meaning, one would assume, that their location is one or two levels BEYOND top secret.

 

And yet EVERYONE knows where it is! The infamous leader of a street gang in Gotham City (which I think BvS established as being the sister city to Metropolis somewhere in or around Kansas? Who knows... ) has no problem using his seemingly NATIONWIDE network of underground contacts to figure out: A. That Waller's black site is actually a Louisiana prison called "Belle Reve," which is apparently not even that hard to find on a map; B. That Harley is stashed there and C. The head guard (whose identity is apparently common knowledge in the community) has a big gambling problem and can be turned quite easily.

 

And who exactly designed this prison? Is Harley Quinn's cell-within-a-cell located in some outer wing where the Joker and his men can BOMB their way in with NO ONE working at the prison noticing a thing until the wall explodes? And speaking of the Joker...

 

--His street thugs are actually more effective with weapons than almost any other characters in the movie, save for maybe Deadshot. They actually seem more coordinated than Flagg's "elite" team of Navy Seals (Or Delta Force, or whatever Scott Eastwood and those other dudes were.).

 

--This has been brought up so many times by better folks than me, but what exactly are Captain Boomerang and Harley Quinn doing on this team? If the goal was to form a response team that could deal with a threat on par with a rogue Superman, Harley and her bat and Captain Boomerang and his, uh, boomerang would be turned to ash in seconds. Maybe less. Neither has a power or even a discernible skill that would be useful in that situation. Same thing with Slipknot.

 

"Sir, Superman's gone rogue! He just tore the roof off of the White House!"

 

"Assemble Task Force X! And make sure Slipknot is active. That man can climb anything. A-N-Y-T-H-I-N-G!"

 

If you need to steal something, Harley and Captain Boomerang make sense. Well, -ish. But if you need to take down an alien tank, they make no sense. And why was Harley using a wooden bat? That would shatter after two hits.

 

--Why in God's name did Waller murder those last four technicians? They weren't cleared to know about Task Force X? Then why were they there in the first place?! What skills did those four agents possess that no one in Waller's employ possessed, to the point that she needed to outsource those duties to other branches of the government (like the FBI). And won't shooting them in the head and leaving their bodies raise even MORE questions than would have been raised by letting them live. Won't their original agencies wonder what happened to them? Why not just read them in? There's already HUNDREDS of people (if not thousands) that are aware of Task Force X by now. That giant government war room was streaming it via a satellite feed, for God's sake. Not to mention all of the different military units that came to Belle Reve to prepare for the mission.

 

--Incubus takes out all those helicopters, but somehow Joker's fake Argus crew sneaks right on in so that they can ambush Waller's team? Was Joker somehow working with them? It makes no sense!

 

And on and on. I really want to hear this podcast!

[PlanBFromOuterSpace 3138]

I'm curious to know who else was considered for the Enchantress role, because it seems so strange that they cast someone that was about 22 to be a DOCTOR. She looks like a kid playing dress-up in the scenes where she's around the government types, and I don't think she ever says anything more in her non-Enchantress scenes than "No! Not again! Please don't make me do that again...".

[Ofcoursemyhorse 1043]

I'm curious to know who else was considered for the Enchantress role, because it seems so strange that they cast someone that was about 22 to be a DOCTOR. She looks like a kid playing dress-up in the scenes where she's around the government types, and I don't think she ever says anything more in her non-Enchantress scenes than "No! Not again! Please don't make me do that again...".

 

 

 

Thats because in movies all scientists began medical school at 12.

[RyanSz 3140]

 

 

 

Thats because in movies all scientists began medical school at 12.

That's how it is in comics as well, Amadeus Cho and Tony Stark both graduated from their respective colleges at around 15 and the same for the new girl who is becoming Iron Man, though I think she's just a freshman at MIT at 15. I believe the only comic scientists who were actually normal age when they became doctors/scientists were Bruce Banner, Hank Pym, and then the various villains in Batman's Rogue gallery.

[Blast Hardcheese 636]

Can I ask a stupid question? Why do we need this film?

 

I know that the DC/WB camp, in the face of such overwhelmingly bad reviews, has rolled out the line that that Suicide Squad is "...for the fans." And a dearth of fans both loyal and rabid (including Kevin Smith, Suicide Squad's creator John Ostrander and an embarrassment of Harley Quinn and Jokerlo cosplayers) have actually come out in defense of this movie. But is this really the adaptation they were expecting or wanted? A film written in 6 months, that suffers from tonally divergent and obvious re-shoots and was edited together like a 2-hour trailer by Trailer Park?

 

With such rich source material, is seeing movie stars on screen acting out these characters in a barely cohesive movie better than what you can get on the printed page? And if this movie really is for the fans, is this the movie treatment they expect? Or is this the mediocre and lousy cinematic experience they'll accept?

[NathanGordon 1096]

It's not for the fans, it's for the $$$. Of course we don't "need" Suicide Squad, any more than we need Thor 3 or Doctor Strange (I mean who really needs movies anyways, maaan). Squad has already turned a profit domestically; worldwide it's at $500 million. Not a money maker on the level of Civil War, but enough to ensure a sequel and/or further spinoffs.

 

This is only my opinion, but I feel like cape comics are really not that rich or nuanced. There's lofty stuff out there in the indies, especially non-superhero stuff, but DC & Marvel cape comics have always been pretty simple and rarely appeal to the reader's intelligence. The literate stories that do leak through are the exception (people always love to champion Grant Morrison and Alan Moore). I'm not a comics reader, not since I was a kid, so maybe I don't have the personal connection some people do. At the end of the day, it's just a movie.

 

For what its worth, I thought Suicide Squad was a solid C-. It had all the marks of a panicked studio unable to commit to a single vision. When the BD is released, there will be some neat fan edits, I'm sure.