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One of the weirder moments for me was when Rock's starts seeing for the first time and he laments that all he can see are "wrinkly butts." Setting aside that he doesn't know what eyes are but immediately knows what butts are - and the adjective "wrinkly," apparently - I thought it was really weird that the mama dog makes sure to immediately clarify for him that the wrinkly butts he's seeing aren't hers ("They're not mine. They're your brothers and sisters.") I don't know, it seems like an oddly defensive stance to take with a newborn child.

big thank yous to the boys for playing my flagrant ones theme on the patreon this week along with several other fan submissions. it was probably just a fun one time thing as Sean and Carl's song parody themes are always instant hits, but I'll still try and do a stankier remix, just to see if that's even possible

Haha seriously there's nothing better than classic Conan bits

I'm having a a weird Mandela effect moment because I thought for certain I remember seeing a line of NBA dolls similar to the WWF Brawlin/Cuddle buddies. They would have been released around the same time as the WWF one so Barkley would have been one of the athletes chosen, but for the life of me I can't find anything on them. Also, speaking as someone who worked in a dog pound for a summer, there are more reasons that a dog is to be destroyed other than "I wanna kill this dog," and yes destroyed is the term used. It's that term usually because the dog has something wrong with it like rabies or another condition that can affect the rest of the animals in the pound or humans, so they need to be put down, which is the term used more for dogs that haven't been adopted in a given period of time. So Travolta is realistically bringing a very ill animal into his home with two small children and running the risk of someone getting ill or hurt. Or even more realistically, the entire movie is a Jacob's Ladder Scenario for the dog who imagines itself being saved from the pound, saves the family from wolves, and reunites the family in the end.

The hiding part was partially in response to seeing people discuss whether she's deceptive and machiavellian. I hadn't listened to the episode yet and assumed the issue of lying (possibly by omission) about her father being in support of the Final Solution was brought up (and the perceived general shifting of support of him changed as she changed the story), and not just the notion of strategic fainting and trying to seduce a gestapo officer at the request of another inmate... Boy, I'll just say, I don't think it's uncommon to have your eyes open after you faint (reference to the podcast), but are still too light-headed and weak to get up. Though I think I'm more befuddled by Amy thinking Sophie and Nathan having a "passionate, tumultuous" romance, well, in a positive way. Because I guess Nathan was passionate and tumultuous. I was just fully expecting Sophie to end up with bruises and possibly a black eye during the movie. But maybe more on that later.

That's a tough question. Seeing this story from Sophie's point-of-view, though, would probably make it triple the level of depressing, no? Probably better to view her through someone else's eyes. While I agree with concerns that maybe Stingo was an odd choice for narrator, I'm not sure it should have been through her. Hmm that's interesting. What did she show Nathan? If anything, he was the manic pixie one giving her (and Stingo) some sort of life. I don't know, I just don't think this movie is quite the trope-filled story as everyone else seems to. That said, Amazon Prime is suggesting all these sexy dramas to me "because I watched Sophie's Choice"... so maybe I should have found it more basic and romantic.

June already upset the breakdance community now poodles have no expressions

I can get behind this 100%

YES that's exactly what I remembered! And destroyed is a horrible term to use in front of impressionable kids, though at least the kids don't see the the freezer used to store the bodies that are awaiting disposal pickup, that was unsettling the first time I saw it.

Did anyone else think that Olympia Dukakis' pep talk about infidelity was insane? Apparently, her husband was shipwrecked with a bunch of USO girls, but she refused to believe he didn't cheat on her until - years later - she met some of the women and *they* said he didn't cheat on her. Yeah, that sounds healthy. I'm not trying to blame Alley's parents for all their relationship problems, but I feel like at least some of Travolta and Alley's dysfunction should be attributed to them.

Was browsing this movie on IMDB, and noticed that the family's last name in Ubriacco. Ubriaco (with 1 c) means "drunk" in Italian. Not sure if that is a coincidence, a misspelling or what, but might explain a lot of what's going on in this trilogy.

Had the prop master never SEEN Charles Barkley before? I understand not everyone is a basketball fan but he would be on, say, the news. And maybe I had to make a doll of him I might try to find a picture?

Found this comment about the Charles Barkley doll on a YouTube clip from the film:

I'm not sure I'd consider two brief scenes as “too much” in a two and a half hour movie. Especially since I feel like - as parallel scenes - they are important in showing Stingo's maturation. I think people might be placing too much emphasis on Stingo's sex life, or at least, emphasizing the wrong things about the sex scenes. Sex as a metaphor for the transition to adulthood - for both genders - is such an old concept that's it's cliche. Once Stingo is presented with the entirety of Sophie's story, he himself is no longer innocent. He is confronted with the atrocities of the world, he can put his childhood behind him - physically, emotionally, and intellectually. I think what might be a big part of people's problems with the scene are two lines in the voice over. The part where he says he was "22 and a virgin" and the part where he holds her up as a "goddess." And I think this might come down to a misinterpretation based on modern sensibilities. While it might come off to modern ears as "And at long last I was having sex!" it's really about crossing over the threshold into manhood. I feel like him mentioning he was 22 in that context would be like if in a modern film the character said "I was 18." The point of both of the scenes isn't about sex exactly, but his personality growth. The sex is just a metaphor. As far as holding her up as a goddess, while it might seem a bit condescending and chauvinistic, if we look at it with less cynicism, Stingo is saying - after hearing all of the terrible things that Sophie did and had done to her - that he still sees her as he ever did. He sees her for what she really is and he doesn’t care. To him, she's still perfect. Essentially, her story is the refutation of the fantasy "If I had been there with my gun, that shooting wouldn't have happened" and the confirmation of "If you want to know what you would have done when Hitler rose to power, you're doing it now." Sophie was oblivious to what was going on until the day she actually listened to her father's lesson. Once she did, she visited the ghetto and realized that she hated her father, and by extension, her husband. However, despite her progressive views regarding the extermination of the Jewish people, she repeatedly sells them out in order to save herself and her children. So when Stingo admits, after hearing her full story, that his feelings haven't changed, it gives Sophie, a lapsed Catholic, a modicum of absolution. (I don't think the fact that the love scene begins with her on her knees is an accident.) However, even though she might be forgiven by Stingo, and by extension the viewer and perhaps God, she still can't forgive herself - which is what drives her back to Nathan.

OMG Conan?! I'm so happy he's on Earwolf playing on all my favorite podcasts

That's also kind of how I feel about it. I certainly don't think it stinks or anything. Meryl Streep's performance is brilliant and unassailable, and the most effective scenes (which I found to be the flashbacks to Sophie's past) do indeed carry a lot of power. But to me the movie feels unbalanced, with everything in Sophie's flashbacks carrying a ton of stakes and everything in the "modern" story with Stingo feeling comparatively weightless and unimportant. The modern relationship stuff could carry its own movie, but the juxtaposition with Sophie's Holocaust story feels awkward to me. It really comes to a head when the scene revealing the nature of the titular "choice" is immediately followed by a scene of Stingo and Sophie going to bed and Stingo's syrupy voice-over describing it. To me it feels a bit like they are trying to equate or compare the climaxes of these stories, and it feels like the wrong choice. Again, not terrible. Better than the average movie. But I would personally not vote for it to stay on the list.

Speaking of which, isn't there a new season of MST3K?

Of the two, "white knight" is definitely the more appropriate term. I think Stingo is a good person. I think his heart is in the right place. I also think he is WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of his depth. I think he is doing the best he can from the perspective of his insulated, middle-class, white boy world - whether that's helpful or not is another thing. re: "Romance" That's how I feel about it, too (clearly ) I was talking to a friend yesterday about iTunes sales and told her that Sophie's Choice was listed under "romance" which I felt was insane. And then the episode begins with Paul and his "You got your Romance in my Holocaust movie..." bit and I was like, "Oh no..." ::pushes Sophie's Choice across the table back to Amy and Paul:: Why don't you show me where you think the romance is...

100% It's all wrapped up in this wish to live and a desire to die. He gives her life, but promises death. However, I don't agree that she hides it from Nathan to be "more acceptable." I think, without necessarily knowing it, she senses that he's not exactly stable. An analogy might be that we have some friends we share certain aspects of our lives and others we just go out to clubs with or whatever. She shares her story with Stingo because she trusts him. She doesn't share it with Nathan because that's not the role he plays in her life. I am pretty sure, though, that Nathan is at least partially with Sophie as a kind of a holocaust trophy. Like, he wasn't put in a Concentration Camp and feels guilty about it, so he kind of gets off on being with - and being the savior of - someone who has. You know...like in all the great romances.

While I agree fully he isn't the angry incel creep, if we want to go with modern internet terms, I think he qualifies as a bit of a 'white knight', which is a bit of a misogynistic thing itself. I mean, it's tough, because almost certainly she needed saving. But that's not for Stingo to determine. It's also a fairly youthful, naive attitude, though, so it fits, imo. Also further, I just got to Amy describing Sophie and Nathan being so madly in love, but I truly don't think so there either. Nathan built their entire relationship on lies, and she was just trying to feel something different/bury her past. That's not love, and I have a hard time seeing it as romantic in any way, or getting over analysis that leans on that. *shrug*

Not survivor of the Holocaust story, but Hiroshima, mon Amour came to mind in terms of comparable movies of what does do when what they cared for is lost. It doesn't have the guilt-ridden, and I'd say self-destructive qualities of Sophie for hating herself for actively choosing her daughter to die. (I haven't listened to the episode yet, but Sophie's relationship is an abusive one, and her return to it seems driven by self hatred). I wish I remembered Jules et Jim better (or at all, beyond just not clicking with it/was just expecting something else. It's been a few years since I've seen it and it just didn't stick in my mind) for a weird (emotional) throuple-like situation. Since I noticed Sophie's Choice is on filmstruck, I noticed it listed Au Revour, Les Enfants as a related movie. So I'm trying to get through that as well, before filmstruck goes away, just for another point of comparison. Because, also, I didn't actually like this movie. Amongst other things, I don't really care for 80's melodrama, so I'm kinda of wondering if 80's French drama plays differently to me. What I'm saying is, this movie is starting to seem like an almagan of other movies I've seen and I felt like the various parts might have been underserved because of it. I also think all the lying Sophie does is as much for emotional coping with herself (not having to face the past) as much as it is to be considered acceptable to Kevin Kline's character. I'm not sure how well the movie would play a second time with that knowledge. Since I didn't enjoy the movie overall, it probably wouldn't help too much, but it might enrich repear viewings for people who did.

I know she probably won’t see this, but Amy, please call out Paul when he mispronounces names on the podcast - Stango vs. Stingo. We don’t need another Ron Silver/Ron Silva situation

Yea, I haven't listened to the ep yet... I usually do it on my commute and today is off, so I'll refrain from too much commentary until I do listen. But I agree with Cameron about the 'romance' and categorization of Stingo. I saw some description calling it a 'love triangle / holocaust movie' and I really think that misses the point entirely. I'd argue Stingo wasn't actually in love with her, and I think Sophie knew this and he probably did too. He was just inexperienced and sucked in and wanted to give her an 'out'. Maybe there's a little infatuation with 'the girl next door', but still, not love. I don't think 'love' was really in this movie at all, not real romantic love anyway, it was more like, intense relationships just to cover up or distract from feelings/life.

At the risk of being unpopular, I didn't really like this movie much at all. It was a chore to get through. I can respect it for its acting. Kevin Kline really surprised me out of everyone. Other than the scene with titular choice and one of the scenes of Kevin Kline viciously berating Sophie, this didn't do anything for me. I can respect it but otherwise a big meh. I don't know if I just wasn't in the mood for this kind of movie when I watched it. This one just felt like homework.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selma's_Choice https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2107523/quotes