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Episode 233 — Space Jam LIVE!

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20 minutes ago, JammerLea said:

Thanks! And now I know I messed up his shirt sleeves. Whoops lol

What a weird episode.  I feel like I might've seen it long ago. I guess I can see why it was banned, but it also seems kinda fitting for a bunch of kids trying to sneak a bit of alcohol to be "cool". 

I was more of an Animaniacs person when that came out. I'm looking forward to the reboot of that!

 

Animaniacs is coming back?  I loved that when I was younger, never knew why it got cancelled, until I actually read what happened to it, and as it turns out, it's this guy named Jamie Kellner who did it, and Jamie Kellner is a shit dick.

He had a reputation for cancelling popular shows, because he didn't like them.  He was the man who had the biggest hand in killing the silver age of Warner Bros. animation.  So, if you liked:

Batman: The Animated Series, and all of the shows in relation to that
Animaniacs
Freakazoid
Tiny Toon Adventures
Pinky and the Brain

All but one, cancelled by Kellner.  Apparently, because those shows were more popular among adolescents, and teens, Kellner decided "They're cartoons, cartoons are for little kids", and took a scythe to them, because of the advertisers, who were selling products aimed at younger kids.  The show that wasn't cancelled, Pinky and the Brain, got poochied, when they added Elmyra Duff, and called it "Pinky, The Brain, and Elmyra", and it died a slow agonising death.

And, just to add the cherry to the shit dick cake, Kellner is also the man who killed World Championship Wrestling, despite it being the highest rated show on TNT, because "I just don't like wrestling".  Eric Bischoff had formed a consortium to buy the company from AOL-Time Warner, Kellner said "Okay, you can have the name, the trademarks, and the library, but I'm cancelling the TV shows, and not providing distribution", without that, it was worthless.  So, instead of selling WCW for a huge amount of money and having 4 hours of high rated programming on the schedule, he cancelled the show, and Vince McMahon bought WCW for $2.7 million... at one point, WCW was worth close to $500 million.

So, fuck Jamie Kellner.

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1 hour ago, Smigg. said:

 

Animaniacs is coming back?  I loved that when I was younger, never knew why it got cancelled, until I actually read what happened to it, and as it turns out, it's this guy named Jamie Kellner who did it, and Jamie Kellner is a shit dick.

 

Yep! Hulu is bringing back Animaniacs. I belieeeeve it's supposed to start this year, but I haven't heard an airdate. They're bringing back the core voice cast and I think the guy who wrote the songs on the original show. Rob Paulsen has some details on the reboot idea proposal in his autobiography he released this past year, I need to get back to reading it.

I got to meet Rob Paulsen and Maurice LaMarche (voices of Pinky and The Brain and so many more) at a convention in 2014 and they were absolute sweethearts! LaMarche voiced Pepe le Pew in Space Jam... I've technically met one of the Space Jam voice actors...

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20 hours ago, DrGuts1003 said:

I too was laughing at the modest house that Michael Jordan supposedly lived in originally, but then I had a thought...was that house in Chicago or Birmingham, AL?  Jordan played for the Birmingham Barons baseball team and we later see him play at a golf course in Birmingham.

Perhaps that house was not his permanent residence, but rather a second home or just a rental while he played baseball.

I was always under the assumption it was a rental near where the team played which is what the vast majority of athletes do while they have a permanent home somewhere else in the off season.

9 hours ago, Smigg. said:

I'm just surprised that Hulk Hogan, with his penchant for bullshit, hasn't come out and said "I was supposed to be in Space Jam, brother! But it was going to be called 'Space SLAM', but I was about to join the nWo, and they didn't want a bad guy as the star brotherdudejack".

I'm almost certain he has said that at least once or twice in the last couple decades, sort of like how he's claimed for years he was the initial choice for what became the George Foreman Grill, but he wasn't home when the pitch company made the initial call.

7 hours ago, PokemonCreationist said:

I want to give a shout out to Isaac, the guy who sang the 2nd Opinions theme song. That was so subtle, I don't think Paul, June, or Jason caught what you were doing. That song was masterfully chosen.

For those that didn't catch it, Isaac sang to the tune of "I Believe I can Fly" by R Kelly. Yes, the grammy-winning single was very apropos for parody in this episode bc the song was written for Space Jam. Its entry on the Billboard website even says so (see screen shot below). In light of recent revelations and less recent piss jokes, this was ripe for more ridicule.

And it's a shame this connection was missing from the Podcast bc it would give so much more ammunition for Jason to rip on Chicago. Kelly was born/raised on the South Side and eventually moved out to the South 'burbs (aka, "Chicago" don't @ me). So, Jason, if you want more proof that Space Jam is just Chicago being obsessed with itself, despite obvious problems, there you go.

 

Screen Shot 2020-02-16 at 10.06.48 AM.png

I'm honestly surprised it didn't peak at number one, that was a total Mandela Effect moment for me.

3 hours ago, JammerLea said:

CAMERON, WHY?! 🤣

On that note, while cartoon physics can apply to Jordon in Looney Tunes Land, it doesn't explain how he was able to be sucked into a golf hole in the real world! How many times should he have died in this movie??

Now I wish there was an alternate ending where when the spaceship lands on the field and the ramp comes down, both the crumbled masses of Wayne Knight and Jordan's characters tumble down in a pile of mush, and the Tunes realize that due to them not being of their world the damage does take effect, but isn't realized while still in Tune atmosphere near the center of the Earth.

3 hours ago, Smigg. said:

The best one for me is Street Fighter: The Movie: The Video Game

This is Super Street Fighter II, the game the movie is based on
 

 

Now here's Street FIghter: The Movie: The Video Game
 

 

This raises the question.  What's the point?

Well, Capcom's Street Fighter franchise currently has over THIRTY games in it... but are somehow still on Street Fighter 5.  And secondly, this game has the added bonus of Kylie Minogue in a swimsuit, even though she was wearing camo in the movie, which I'm alright with.

That game might as well have been called Fuck Grammar: the Game as there was no logical reason for there to be that many colons in that title. As for the rest of the series, they basically saw what Final Fantasy was starting to do with title schemes and said hold my beer. Kingdom Hearts is trying to match their title ability with some of the batshit names that have been given to the various reboots and remasters that have been put out over the years.

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Just an FYI since I know you're not all sportos

But Space Jam 2 is scheduled for 2021

space-jam-2.jpg?quality=50&width=1000&ra

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2 hours ago, AlmostAGhost said:

Just an FYI since I know you're not all sportos

But Space Jam 2 is scheduled for 2021

space-jam-2.jpg?quality=50&width=1000&ra

scared.gif

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

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8 hours ago, RyanSz said:

 

I'm almost certain he has said that at least once or twice in the last couple decades, sort of like how he's claimed for years he was the initial choice for what became the George Foreman Grill, but he wasn't home when the pitch company made the initial call.

I did a thread a few years ago when Paul announced that they were doing Mr. Nanny and Suburban Commando, and it was basically cataloguing all of the bullshit that Hogan has spewed in his life.

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LIsten I am the right age for this movie. I was 7 years old when this was in theaters, and yes I did eat it the fuck up. Did I think this was a masterpiece up until listening to this episode? Yes...

Here's my actual question though - How can June and Jason destroy this movie so much and then turn around and pledge their love to something like Drop Dead Fred?!

#TeamSanity

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There's a lot I want to say and a lot of good stuff was said already.  I'll just limit myself to one idea.

This kind of goes with the confusing Six Flags analog within the movie.  Is this movie...  a self-loathing commentary on itself?  Now obviously there's the very clearly unintentionally ironic use of "evil businessman" in Danny DeVito who represents the same kind of blind greed that resulted in Space Jam in the first place.  He tries to appeal to young people (represented by an alien kid) and desperately gloms onto something popular, sort of like this movie tries with two popular things and awkwardly jams them together.  I feel like we've seen that kind of disingenuous pokes at big business in cashgrab/pandering movies before.

But also Bugs Bunny's complaint is that the Tunes will be rehashing all their own bits night after night.  But the film has a LOT of rehashes of classic bits.  Then the basketballers have their talent stolen in the plot, making them embarrassments and in the making of this film they aren't allowed to rely on their best talents and forced to flex muscles they have not trained (acting muscles), making them embarrassments.  Michael Jordan will be punished and forced to play with severe handicaps, which I feel could describe as not only acting (a talent that doesn't run that strong in him) but also having to work off no other actors in the nowhere land of greenscreen.

Perhaps the writer and/or the director and other people involved in the creation of the movie told the story of their movie being made and having to sell their souls to the hungry maw of unfettered capitalism within the movie.   At least on a subconscious level.

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When Jordan is at home watching TV with his kids, there is a pile of VHS tapes next to the TV.  The only title that is visible is the 1987 classic Disorderlies.  Who knew Air Jordan was a fan of The Fat Boys?

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I owe this to my friend who asked a question at the live show and was cut out of the podcast. It was my fault, I told him to ask it. Although he butchered it completely, this is what he meant. 
 

Is space jam the original Get Out?

The nba players have their minds removed and put into someone else’s body, just like in Get Out.  Michael is then taken to the “sunken place,” where he is to become a slave. My theory is that the Toons are in on it, which is why they picked a game they don’t know how to play. They convince Michael that they are his friends, and then Michael risks it all and says that he should be the only one to be enslaved. All the toons, the nba, everyone is in on it. That’s why no one is surprised when he gets sucked down into  the “sunken place”. No one is surprised or shocked because, again, they’re in on it. Michael does Get Out. But the nba has still not gotten their justice for trying enslave Michael. Which is why Lebron James has come for them in the sequel.

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So I'm going to say the Tunes' comeback win over the Monstars isn't all that impressive. Why? Well, near as I can tell the Monstars are only fielding five players, the ones who stole the abilities of the NBA stars. Meanwhile, the Tunes seem to be rolling out a roster of 30 players or more, and all of them get on the court at some point (how referee Marvin the Martian is allowing this big a roster is unexplained). Of course the Monstars faded at the end of the game! Big scary monsters or not, anyone is going to get tired playing the full game with no one getting a break. Big tactical error by the Monstars there -- their coach should be fired.

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Actually, Paul explicitly mentions it near the end of the show and shows the live audience.  They take a look at an online coloring book.

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On 2/16/2020 at 8:46 PM, AlmostAGhost said:

Just an FYI since I know you're not all sportos

But Space Jam 2 is scheduled for 2021

space-jam-2.jpg?quality=50&width=1000&ra

 

While some people are excited for a Space Jam sequel, I want to point out that Space Jam already has a sequel, or at least a spin-off: Zombieland. The two films share a character in Bill Murray, making them take place in the same cinematic universe.

My theory is that because the Looney Tunes live underground, they were spared the ravages of the Zombie apocalypse, though I do like the idea of zombified versions of Taz and Speedy Gonzalez rushing around and speed-infecting people. Perhaps the Toons brought Murray underground, allowing him to survive on his own for years before returning to his mansion to encounter the characters from Zombieland. If you think about it, the cartoonish aspects of Zombieland fit in well with the elastic reality of Looney Tunes. 

I hope that Space Jam 2 will pick up sometime after Zombieland, with Lebron and Bugs using basketball to take down zombie hordes. 

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9 hours ago, sycasey 2.0 said:

Another thing not mentioned is that the original 1996 Space Jam website is still up and running, one of the few remaining relics from pre-2000s Internet. Give it a whirl:

 

https://www.spacejam.com/

 

screen-shot-2010-12-29-at-12-26-40-pm1.p

Paul did mention this towards the end of the show. Jason commented on how that's just the internet to him and kids these days don't understand this was The Internet.

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1 hour ago, taylor anne photo said:

Paul did mention this towards the end of the show. Jason commented on how that's just the internet to him and kids these days don't understand this was The Internet.

Ahh, must have missed that part.

Well, may as well provide the link for everyone.

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I am simultaneously thrilled that I finally have unique information to impart on an HDTGM movie and horrified that this is that movie...

Paul mentioned that Chuck Jones hated this movie. But you're not going to find an interview where he said so, because he never did, publicly. The news of Chuck Jones hating Space Jam actually originated with my friend and I.

We were 17 when Space Jam came out and were (are) huge Looney Tunes fanatics. We bought and read every book we could on the subject... and Chuck Jones was our idol. We also happened to have a mutual friend: Mike Peters, the cartoonist behind the comic strip "Mother Goose and Grimm." One day, when we were at Mike's house, he surprised us by calling Chuck Jones on the phone and letting us speak to him on speakerphone for about 20 minutes. 

Space Jam had come out not too long before and we HATED IT. We also noticed that Chuck Jones was apparently not consulted or involved with the film in any way, despite recently having been given a lifetime appointment at WB animation. We could find nothing about his thoughts on it, so we asked him directly. His immediate response was: "Oh, it was terrible!" and went on to talk about how he had spent decades with these characters and said how painful it was to see them all acting almost completely out of character, doing and saying things they never would. 

After the call, Mike told us that Chuck disparaged the movie while giving a talk on the lot and was actually removed from the event! 

In 2008, Trevor wrote a blog post about our experience talking with Chuck, and that post has been cited all over the internet, spreading the news of Chuck's hate wide. 

Trevor has since become YouTube's "Looney Tunes Critic," a project he launched with a two-part video called "Space Jam Stinks," breaking down how awful this movie is over the course of an hour. 

Having argued with millennials for the last decade about what a piece of garbage this movie is, I am SO HAPPY that HDTGM tackled it. It's nice to have Paul, Jason and June firmly in my corner on this one.

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Elektra runs in singing like Bill Murray in the film. Da da da da! 

I am here to play defense of Space Jam. While there is a lot I cannot defend. There is some stuff I have gripes with. There is a discussion around the 20 minute mark about what a “long road” it is go to to get the Looney Tunes to play basketball. This isn’t really so. It is a reference to street culture in the 90s. I once again point you to this GQ article about the “urban” Looney Tunes. 

Long quote: 

Quote


Streetwear imagery like the Tasmanian Devil in a gold chain, Wile E. Coyote in a mink, and Marvin Martian in a bandana can be traced back to the legendary Queens-based design crew, the Mighty Shirt Kings. Composed of Edwin "Phade" Sacasa, Rafael "Kasheme" Avery, and Clyde "Nike" Harewood, the group took the colorful aesthetics of '80s New York City graffiti and applied them to t-shirts. The Shirt Kings set up shop in Jamaica, Queens' Colosseum Mall, where they quickly became known for combining known cartoon figures (including a few from Disney and comic strips), caricatures, and fly boy flourishes like gold teeth. For Phade, the venture was a combination fanhood and obligation. "You got to remember: '84, '85, '86, that was when the crack era came out and was devastating communities and destroying families," Phade tells me. "We had almost a moral job to bring joy to people's lives—and you found joy when you were a child."

Shirt Kings' clothes became popular thanks to college kids wearing their designs outside New York and visits from then-hot Queens natives LL Cool J and Run-DMC's Jam Master Jay ("The minute Jay came down it was like, 'Oh, who is this guy having a superstar who's all over MTV come down to the Jamaica Coliseum with, like, 100 guys—all of them wearing Adidas—and they're all buying shirts.'"). While his mentor, fashion icon Dapper Dan, was infamously served a cease-and-desist from Gucci because of his "knock-ups," Phade was able to avoid any legal entanglements with Warner Bros. and other corporations. Instead, they overlooked Shirt Kings all together, with Phade noting that, before hip-hop objectively became the commercial behemoth it is today, "there was a vast space between urban and corporate."

Basically, it began as social commentary and parody. I myself had a Tasmanian Devil with his had turned backwards on a shirt. They were often depicted as ballers or holding basketballs. 

Thus, the genius of the original commercial is to acknowledge the street culture of the era. (And as many noted, the soundtrack rules and is dominated by hip hop and African American artists.) 

I think the commercial Paul played showed that Warner Brothers wanted to do some kind of nod to the fashion trend. But the inclusion of Michael Jordan, who was returning to basketball, gave it a larger story. He may have “saved them” (loving these discussions about if MJ or Lola is the hero) but it is the Looney Tunes who bring MJ back. And they, therefor, save basketball and the Bulls in particular. 

Honestly, as a child I knew the film was fiction and not some kind of documentary, but I remember being bummed that the kids in the film aren’t his actual kids. I think the movie makes MJ’s return to basketball some kind of mythological feat, better than the ones of Hercules. And that is why so many people like it.  

Also, don’t give money to R Kelly but please play the soundtrack. It is so fun. I like the Monstars rap anthem the best. I think it was particularly fun for families who enjoyed rap music but didn’t want their kids to listen to songs about drugs or violence. So this was the music many kids grew up on. And it had some real talent involved, as mentioned above. Parents could feel good about giving their kids Jay-Z, Coolio, Method Man, Busta Rhymes, Barry White, etc. 

eta: some more random thoughts. I think this was an attempt to make the Looney Tunes cool and relevant again. And I am not certain Moron Mountain is a reference to Six Flags. I always thought it was a dig at Disney because they use the parks to keep the characters in the public eye. Like when is the last time Mickey Mouse had a film? 

Also I think Marvin the Martian wasn’t the villain because he was quite popular at the time. My sister had a lot of Marvin stuff. He was also referenced in Clueless in that era. 

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Oh I just remembered I wanted to comment that Six Flags Magic Mountain is not the only one to have WB characters as the mascots. I live near Six Flags Over Texas (AKA the OG Six Flags built in 1961) and Bugs and the gang are ALL over that park. It also includes characters from the DC universe and many of our roller coasters are named after heroes and villains - my favorite being the Batman, but others love Mr. Freeze which I am too much of a coward to ever get on because the idea of starting off 0 to 60 immediately and BACKWARDS freaks me the fuck out.

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Since there is a a Looney Tunes version of Mars/Space, then it stands to reason that there is also a Moron Mountain inside of the Looney Tunes Universe.  Since that version of Moron Mountain is inside the LooneyVerse, those Nerdlucks are Looney Tunes characters.  Why didn't bugs and the crew recruit the Nerdlucks from the Looney Moron Mountain to play for their squad.  Being that these would be Looney Tunes versions of what are already cartoons in the real world, they would be exponentially more powerful than their real cartoon counterparts!  They probably could have even stolen the talent from the already mutated versions of the "real" Nerdlucks to become all powerful Gods and just annihilate the other team (or at least beat them really bad at basketball).

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By the way, in case anyone was curious how well SpaceJam.com scales to a 5k monitor...

 

Screenshot 2020-02-18 17.43.37.png

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2 hours ago, taylor anne photo said:

Oh I just remembered I wanted to comment that Six Flags Magic Mountain is not the only one to have WB characters as the mascots. I live near Six Flags Over Texas (AKA the OG Six Flags built in 1961) and Bugs and the gang are ALL over that park. It also includes characters from the DC universe and many of our roller coasters are named after heroes and villains - my favorite being the Batman, but others love Mr. Freeze which I am too much of a coward to ever get on because the idea of starting off 0 to 60 immediately and BACKWARDS freaks me the fuck out.

I wanted to mention something similar about Six Flags too lol. Also been to Six Flags Over Texas a couple times and WB/DC characters and merch are quite popular. I have also talked to someone who used to work there as the Taz mascot and while I won't call it "slavery", working in those things under the conditions of the hot Texas summer definitely sounds like torture. I think he had some story too about someone vomiting inside the costume.

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4 minutes ago, JammerLea said:

I wanted to mention something similar about Six Flags too lol. Also been to Six Flags Over Texas a couple times and WB/DC characters and merch are quite popular. I have also talked to someone who used to work there as the Taz mascot and while I won't call it "slavery", working in those things under the conditions of the hot Texas summer definitely sounds like torture. I think he had some story too about someone vomiting inside the costume.

I don't doubt it!!! I knew a guy that after high school worked there in their dance performances and all I could think about was performing outside in the middle of summer and he wasn't even in one of the character costumes!

Mainly I wanted to make this comment because this is not the first time where I've heard Californians talk about Magic Mountain as if it is either the only Six Flags to exist or the first one to ever be built. Like bitches y'all know it's called Six Flags because of the amount of flags Texas had in it's existence right? (Sadly one of them was the Confederate flag and sadly it has been waving at the OG location ever since it was built and sadly there's been a fuck ton of arguments about whether or not to keep it...)

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32 minutes ago, taylor anne photo said:

I don't doubt it!!! I knew a guy that after high school worked there in their dance performances and all I could think about was performing outside in the middle of summer and he wasn't even in one of the character costumes!

Mainly I wanted to make this comment because this is not the first time where I've heard Californians talk about Magic Mountain as if it is either the only Six Flags to exist or the first one to ever be built. Like bitches y'all know it's called Six Flags because of the amount of flags Texas had in it's existence right? (Sadly one of them was the Confederate flag and sadly it has been waving at the OG location ever since it was built and sadly there's been a fuck ton of arguments about whether or not to keep it...)

Oof, yeah, that's true that's the origin of the name. Could do without that specific one though.

First one I went too was Six Flags Great America in the Chicago area with my family as a kid. But that was just sad because I wanted to go on the roller coasters but my cousins were too small and the adults didn't want to go. 😑

As for the Six Flags here, I liked the Superman coaster. Haven't been in a good few years though. It's expensive. 😭

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