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(I also made it so that people can change their votes until the poll closes, because this probably should've been enabled all along.)

A bigger problem in criticism: presenting an obvious bias under the guise of considered thoughtfulness when none is actually taken.

In Paul’s voice: FIVE STARS

My day has been made...had two of my corrections and omissions discussed by Paul on this episode. I look forward to contributing more in the future. Love the show and love this site!

I gotta say, I think this movie deserves to be in the top 100. It's not a pleasant film, and it's not easy to watch, but I think it's subject and it's message are so relevant to today's society, maybe even more so than when the film was first released (though I wasn't alive then so I can't say for sure). The first time I saw this film I had to stop watching during the attack on the writer and his wife. It's funny that I don't at all see this scene as more palatable by the inclusion of the song and dance. I found it then, and still find it now, to be extremely disturbing in it's execution. But I tried the film again years later and being prepared for it helped. I watched it to the end and for the next few days I couldn't stop thinking about it. I love when a film lodges itself so thoroughly in my mind. And ultimately what I think the film is communicating is this idea of the way today's society plays on our psyches. Yes, the film is set in "the future" but it's very much about today. Alex doesn't care that he's doing anything wrong, and in fact he's just a symptom of a sick society. But by the end of the film he's gotten so much positive reinforcement from the scientists and the politicians (the last shot is extremely telling) that the most chilling thing about the ending is that I think he doesn't believe he's done anything wrong at all! He's been rewarded for his behavior. In a time where fame and talent don't necessarily go hand-in-hand, and when so many in society crave a spotlight for a substance-less existence, this film goes right at the heart of what creates these social paradigms. As for Alex being the most sympathetic character... while I can't defend Kubrick's treatment of actors or his own mindset in this regard, I do believe that this has more to do with the simple fact that the film takes a subjective viewpoint rather than an objective one. Alex is "cool" and the most sympathetic character simply because we're in his head and he is the star of his own story. I think this approach is much more successful at telling this story than a more cinema verité sort of objectivity would've captured. In this light, it's easy to see that the other characters in the story are unsympathetic simply because that's how Alex views them. We're seeing the world through his eyes and it adds to the sense of distress we feel while watching the film. So while I don't think this film is an easy or entertaining watch, I think it's an extremely important film that deserves to be seen and studied through the prism of our media-centric digital age.

I'm with Cameron H on ACO. I watched it in college more years ago than I care to admit. I don't ever need to watch it again. I get that people can take away deeper meaning from the rape scenes and violence, but there are other ways to raise questions about morality and justice than what Kubrick does here. I'd put Taxi Driver over this without even thinking about it. Taxi Driver gets to all the shocking things (like Jodie Foster's character) without actually showing rape scenes. The total gory shoot out at the end is shocking not only in its violence, but also because it is used so sparingly in the movie, and the rest of the film basically just insinuated. Look at Psycho, that murder scene to me was so much more terrifying because of its intimacy and how it leaves you with your own imagination as to the stabbings. I get that art should be open to the offensive and the shocking including sexual violence, but as a woman and survivor of sexual violence, I chose not to engage. I appreciate the discussion the movie is allowing us to have, and I appreciate the deep dives into the scenes, but I won't be rewatching.

I like to think of myself more as an if only so I'm not enslaved to a very creepy old man. And also because Debbie Reynolds is EVERYTHING.

I definitely raised an eyebrow when Paul said that Kubrick made the rape scenes "engaging."

Hmm, not as stark a divide as I might have anticipated.

I'm sincerely sorry that happened to you. I know that just describing the plot of this movie to my wife was enough to really piss her off. I hope I'm not stepping out of line or offending anyone when I say this, but I think there is a certain degree of privilege on display when a person is able to look at those scenes and then casually talk about objectivity, art, shock-value, and morality - especially when they may have been fortunate enough in their lives not to have to undergo the horrors presented within. While this might be a fascinating philosophical game for some, for others, it's a grim reminder of how things have always been, and sadly, continue to be. And while I'm sure there are some women who enjoy this movie just fine, I really don't find it at all surprising that the defenders of this movie tend to be predominantly male. Like you said, there are ways of presenting the same themes in the movie without it feeling like cheap exploitation.

I just want to say that while Tubi TV failed me on Perfect Stranger it has a bunch of Holiday Romances I haven’t seen offered anywhere else. I’m looking forward to diving in. It also has the Dolly Parton movie Unlikely Angel which I’m looking forward to to revisiting.

Amy's remarks on this picture remind of everything that is wrong with modern film criticism; lack of research surrounding the thematic elements in the film, filmmaker quotes and other historical elements taken out of context, and flimsy arguments used to support a negative view the film because stronger evidence to prove their point simply doesn't exist. Although, these complaints have always been around when speaking about film criticism, in this modern age they've taken a strangle hold over as the norm when criticly viewing movies. Looking purely at the surface value view of film, lacking any real investigation into the images and sounds of the film, and letting preconceived notions of what filmmaking (or filmmakers motives) is, has poisoned how the general public see motion pictures. Amy's opinions are a textbook example of these problems that are only becoming more entrenched as we let any person, regardless of their education or experience have an equal voice to those that do take the time and effort to evaluate the worth of films and art. Paul, on the other hand, should be given an award for his patience and grace in handling a conversation where he obviously disagreed with Amy. I intend on using this episode as an example with my students on how you can have a civil conversation with someone you don't agree with.

I wish we could have a second poll for this thread. A Clockwork Orange vs Taxi Driver.

I know I would really like to watch The Women and a few other movies with you guys (but especially the Women which is somehow a movie without a single man in it and is also so misogynistic. I still adore it and am dying to see what you guys would make of it).

I took a film class in university in which the professor loved Kubrik. Like to him Kubrik wasn't a filmmaker but rather the second coming. As a result I think we covered all his films from 2001 to Eyes Wide Shut in class. Naturally we covered A Clockwork Orange and he went into a whole lecture about it and what it means and everything like it. He was also in the dark comedy camp as well. I remember him talking a bit how the message of the film is so obscure that people miss it and it is embraced for the wrong reason, kinda like Taxi Driver or Fight Club. There is a certain type of male that embraces these characters as examples of cool or what they should be while missing the point of the film. Needless to say I liked the movie. After university I watched several Kubrik films several teams again. 2001 and Dr. Strangelove I both really love and watched regularly. I was also one of those people that defends the second half of Full Metal Jacket. However Clockwork Orange never really got a rewatch. I would just regurgitate what my professor told me to people. Then for Unspooled I went back and watched the movie again, and for me it didn't hold up. This whole movie to me came down to a feeling of wanting to have its cake and eat it too. We are going extreme to prove a message or a point so why not push it as far as we can. It is also the like Amy was saying the hold of Alex up on a pedestal. I found him unlikable, as we are suppose to, but I just found him uninteresting as well. There is no real depth to his character. "He's a thug but he loves art and classic music." Great, that's not depth. And again how the whole thing goes out of its way to dehumanize the women they attack and have the victims "ask for it" yet when Alex as the victim is sympathetic. I get that this can be due to the unreliable narrator aspect of it. We just have to accept that this is all his twisty version of events start to finish, but since I don't care about Alex why do I care to hear his fantasy. I kinda want the shoe to drop if that was the case, but that's just me personally. I also don't know if it is also a lot of the ideas I've now seen done in other films that I enjoy more. While not the exact same I think American Psycho is a better example of a dark comedy with an unreliable narrator from an ultraviolent book.

Not me, I bailed after an hour. Suck it, Kubrick! Yeah, the movie screams 2edgy4me to me.

Um, BREAKING NEWS, Daredevil has been cancelled but...A Christmas Prince: A Royal Wedding was just been released on Netflix! I'm happy with this trade.

For the record: I’m 100% offended by the content. (Which I think is kind of the point) I don’t know that being offended by the content and not liking the movie in general have to be mutually exclusive. I will also confess, I’ve hated this movie since I was a teenager, and I hate it now as an adult. Personally, I don’t need gratuitous scenes of protracted rape to “get it.” I also don’t think the idea that Alex is forced to watch horrible images of rape and violence while A Clockwork Orange’s audience is watching them voluntarily is as clever as the movie seems to think. It all feels like an ill-conceived college film. I don’t care if everyone else loves it and I have no interest trying to convince people otherwise. I’m just speaking my truth.

My comparison wasn’t based on their content. My point was KISS and Marilyn Manson are trash bands that wouldn’t have found success or be remembered at all if it weren’t for their shock value. If you take out everything shocking in A Clockwork Orange, it’s kindergarten philosophy with Monty Python aesthetics. (in my opinion)

I agree with a lot of this. I also feel like I was giving this film short shrift a little bit in my comment, since I focused on why I could see an argument for voting against it. So let me try to mount more of a defense or full-throated praise. It seems to be generally true that people respond more to A Clockwork Orange when they're young and see it fade as they age. It's the same for me . . . but I'm not sure if that has to be a big strike against it. I will say that when I first saw this movie at 18, it wasn't just something I loved, it was something that opened my eyes to the possibilities of what cinema could do. This wasn't just a comedy or an action movie, it was a movie that used dark humor and violence to first shock your sensibilities and then after grabbing you by the scruff, forced you to examine the disturbing consequences of those actions and the response to it. It delivered a bracing inquisition in to fundamental moral questions: Alex is terrible, but what do you do with someone like that? If you take away his ability to do bad, was that a victory? Did it make society safer, or did it just ensure the violence came from somewhere else? Was it worth the removal of his humanity? Maybe when you're young you need something like this to kind of get in your face and force you to start thinking philosophically about moral issues, even if it's a bit shaggy and unsubtle about doing so. There is value in that. Though perhaps not as much as with something like 2001, I do still keep finding relevance in the movie and new things to explore. For example, upon this most recent viewing I was struck by its commentary on the criminal justice system. The government's treatment of Alex isn't just cold during the Ludovico treatment, their cruelty also continues afterward, when they just toss him back out into the world with no further support system. We see how that goes: Alex's old friends come around (as cops!) to torment him, his former victims try to exact revenge, his family are nervous around him, even perfect strangers (Joe the lodger) immediately treat him as a pariah. To me this was a great illustration of why recidivism rates are so high. Also, the KISS of movies? I don't think so. I never heard a KISS song that even pretended to be about anything other than partying or chasing girls. I'd say the closer musical parallel is early gangsta rap -- music that does carry a social critique or message, but one that is sometimes drowned out by the violence and misogyny on the surface.

I voted a tentative yes on the poll, though I could be convinced otherwise. My objections are not so much to the artistry or content of the movie (I think it remains a great, thought-provoking film, if not always the most enjoyable watch), but rather: 1. It's BARELY an "American" film. The only things that qualify it for the AFI list are that the financial backing was American (Warner Bros.) and that Stanley Kubrick was American-born. On the other hand, all of the filming took place in Britain, the entire cast was British, and the story all takes place in Britain. Kubrick lived a majority of his life and did most of his professional filmmaking in England. It seems pretty British to me. 2. There's a good argument that this isn't even a Top 5 Kubrick. Of course, I think Kubrick made more than five great films so that's not necessarily a knock on it, but if you're considering an all-time list maybe it doesn't need to be there. But that said, A Clockwork Orange has also clearly had a huge impact on popular culture (look how many Simpsons references!), so based on that I say yes.

Top Gun has been my bread and butter since I was a wee lad (my Dad being a 5'6" dark-haired handsome Navy pilot didn't hurt. FREUDIAN!) I hereby challenge you to a game of shirtless volleyball!