Musical Mondays Off-Week 6 (Quasar Sniffer's Pick)

[Cam Bert 8145]

Capulet. Seriously, I would be happier recommending you watch Tromeo and Juliet rather than this one. Compare trailers and tell me you disagree.

I am very familiar with Tromeo and Juliet. James Gunn's film debut. EDIT: For writing. Troma founder Lloyd Kaufman directed it.

 

I watched that first trailer and boy... I never felt like drinking to forget before now. Everything about it just makes me unhappy to my core.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

"Juliet is a Capulet! The Montagues and Capulets are mortal enemies"

 

SPOILER: Shakespeare didn't write that line. God I hate this movie.

 

Fuck it. Here's a bunch of stuff from my article on the way the text was handled. SKIP THIS IF YOU'RE NOT A GEEK.

 

At first blush, Carlei’s film echoes Zeffirelli’s and Luhrmann’s by adhering to Shakespeare’s “Two hours’ traffic of this stage,” clocking in at 118 minutes, two less than Luhrmann’s conscious effort to stick to Shakespeare’s limit and 20 minutes shorter than Zeffirelli’s version. Text-wise, however, there is very little difference between each film, if we go by spoken line-count. Shakespeare’s original play runs at 3,186 lines in the First Folio, which includes stage directions. Basing comparison on a parallel-text analysis, we discover that Zeffirelli’s film is longest, at 1,522 lines; Luhrmann’s runs 1,215 lines, and Carlei’s comes in just behind Zeffirelli, at 1,517 lines, which gives an early indicator into the performing style of the newer film. Performing almost the identical number of lines in twenty minutes less will necessarily impact the clarity of the text. Given these line counts, there is little that is remarkable about the number of lines that are cut from Shakespeare’s play. Fellowes cuts 1,995 lines, which is relatively standard, given the fact that Zeffirelli cuts 1,956 lines and Luhrmann slightly more, at 2,081. All three films relocate several lines and speeches for dramaturgy’s sake: Fellowes shifts 41 lines, far more structurally faithful than Zeffirelli (116) and Luhrmann (211). Each of these statistics demonstrates a standard uniformity in the broad strokes of comparison between films, demonstrating a mostly common structure and length.

 

It is in the textual emendations where the greatest interest lies. In line analysis, any change, regardless of how minor, was logged as a textual change. Some are restricted to single words, while others are full paraphrases. Regardless of the volume, each represents a conscious choice to alter text for a narratological purpose. The content of these emendations will be discussed below, but these are best prefaced with the statistical data. Of the entirety of Julian Fellowes’ 1,517 screenplay lines, an astonishing 823 lines – or well over half – are emended or completely paraphrased. To place this in context, Zeffirelli alters 240 lines of his 1,522 lines, and Luhrmann only 187 of his 1,215. Fellowes claimed in interviews that emendations were undertaken for clarity and storytelling purposes, as well as the fact that he was taking his uneducated audience into account: “…to see the original in its absolutely unchanged form, you require a kind of Shakespearian scholarship and you need to understand the language and analyse it and so on. I can do that because I had a very expensive education, I went to Cambridge. Not everyone did that and there are plenty of perfectly intelligent people out there who have not been trained in Shakespeare's language choices.” (Sweeney, “Romeo and Juliet: Julian Fellowes reinvents a classic tale”). In other interviews, Fellowes claims that his emendations were only slight: “All the stuff you remember is all in, I don't think we've cut any line that is ever one of the quoted ones.... About 70 per cent of it is Shakespeare anyway, because quite often we've shortened the scene but that doesn't mean we've altered the lines." (MSN.CA). Critics were not swayed, which opened Fellowes up to great criticism, with many of his more audacious ‘updates’ derided as “hilarious” by the Village Voice.

 

In addition to the emendations, Fellowes follows his predecessors by adding extra lines with no correspondent in Shakespeare’s play, with a stunning 368 new lines added to the screenplay, far outweighing Zeffirelli’s previously-held record of 318 new lines. Luhrmann, on the other hand, saw fit to add only 70 new lines to his film. This undercuts Fellowes’ claim that “Seventy-five per cent of the film is Shakespeare … we’ve tightened the narrative, we’ve made certain things clearer that were difficult to understand, but the great speeches are all still in.” (Renzetti).

 

While Fellowes may have a point about the “great speeches” being in place, they are rarely as written in Shakespeare. Juliet’s famous balcony speech starts off textually sound, until its sixth line: “Thou art thy self, though not a Montague” changes to “You'd be yourself if you were not called Montague.” I will go into greater detail on the implications of such changes below, but they are rampant throughout this film adaptation. In fact, if we consider of all lines in this film, which ones are entirely unchanged, the statistics are startling. Of the 1,517 lines of Fellowes’ screenplay, only 211 lines are unaltered lines from Shakespeare. Consider the ratios in Zeffirelli (774 unaltered lines of 1,522) and Luhrmann (648 unaltered lines of 1,215) and it is clear that line alteration is common, but it is unusual to appear at this extent.

 

Given these statistics, we return to the promotional materials which sought to position this film as a Romeo and Juliet for this generation. As Caitlin Griffin of the Folger Shakespeare Library notes, “While the language still sounds lofty, they’re not Shakespeare’s word choices – and that’s a big deal. Fellowes’s adaptation, while poetic and set in the period of Shakespeare’s play, is not using Shakespeare’s language. The advertising hasn’t been very clear on this fact” (Duffin).

[Cam Bert 8145]

"Juliet is a Capulet! The Montagues and Capulets are mortal enemies"

 

SPOILER: Shakespeare didn't write that line. God I hate this movie.

 

Fuck it. Here's a bunch of stuff from my article on the way the text was handled. SKIP THIS IF YOU'RE NOT A GEEK.

First off, very well written piece!

 

Second I agree 100% with you and that line just nails it. When I heard the cast and then that line popped up in the first 30 seconds of the trailer I was like "Oh, they want 'youths' to see this and therefore are dumbing it down." Then I read your piece and see that quote from Fellowes about making it for the uneducated just rubs me so wrong and it confirmed my thoughts. This is all backwards thinking. Romeo and Juliet is easily one of if not the most known Shakespeare play. People that have never seen it or read it still know the basic story. The themes are pretty universal too. I think this just speaks to the bigger problem of underestimating the intelligence of a teenage audience. True while Mercutio's speech may leave them scratching their heads, it wouldn't effect their overall understanding of the story. I dread to think how that was handled in this version. I remember being made to read Romeo and Juliet in the 9th grade. We were all 14 and not one person didn't get the material at a basic level. There are layers of subtext and meaning that naturally goes over you head, but that doesn't or won't stop teenagers enjoying the story. Sorry to ramble but that trailer did upset me.

[tomspanks 9039]

Could we pick interpretations of Shakespeare like West Side Story, Forbidden Planet or Throne of Blood?

 

What about any movie where the female protagonist cross-dresses to pass as a male?

[taylor anne photo 11311]

What about any movie where the female protagonist cross-dresses to pass as a male?

[Quasar Sniffer 4174]

"Juliet is a Capulet! The Montagues and Capulets are mortal enemies"

 

SPOILER: Shakespeare didn't write that line. God I hate this movie.

 

Fuck it. Here's a bunch of stuff from my article on the way the text was handled. SKIP THIS IF YOU'RE NOT A GEEK.

As a BIG TIME literary nerd and a lover of what statistical analysis can reveal, may I just say, well fucking done!

[NathanGordon 1096]

I'm just here for the cat pics.

 

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

As a BIG TIME literary nerd and a lover of what statistical analysis can reveal, may I just say, well fucking done!

Thanks! I abandoned this article a couple of years ago after doing all that data crunching, but posting it here has me thinking I need to overhaul it and get it out there.

[Cameron H. 23786]

All I could think during "Money Money" was:

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sor9GzivGbk

[kateacola 2440]

I started watching last night.. will finish up tonight but have a feeling I may be out-numbered next week? We'll see...

 

But after watching (most of) this and other "classic" movies this year-- that I've never seen before-- I am finding I understand more references in Simpsons eps OR more fully appreciate the references after actually seeing the films.

[tomspanks 9039]

I started watching last night.. will finish up tonight but have a feeling I may be out-numbered next week? We'll see...

 

But after watching (most of) this and other "classic" movies this year-- that I've never seen before-- I am finding I understand more references in Simpsons eps OR more fully appreciate the references after actually seeing the films.

 

The Simpsons was the reason I tried to watch Paint Your Wagon.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

The Simpsons was the reason I tried to watch Paint Your Wagon.

 

Fuck you, The Simpsons!

[kateacola 2440]

 

The Simpsons was the reason I tried to watch Paint Your Wagon.

LOLOL same... and I sat and watched the whole thing

[Cameron H. 23786]

I started watching last night.. will finish up tonight but have a feeling I may be out-numbered next week? We'll see...

 

I will say, this movie is kind of a bummer.

[tomspanks 9039]

LOLOL same... and I sat and watched the whole thing

 

I'm still impressed you made it all the way through! That was...not a good movie. Other than that, The Simpsons have never steered me wrong. You don't win friends with salad. Never trust an old person. Bovine University. Solid life advice.

[kateacola 2440]

 

I'm still impressed you made it all the way through! That was...not a good movie. Other than that, The Simpsons have never steered me wrong. You don't win friends with salad. Never trust an old person. Bovine University. Solid life advice.

Yeah it was pretty rough.. I mean one of the songs was just about passing a can of beans..

 

But yeah, if I complete the DLM challenge this year and all it gets me is understanding and/or appreciating Simpsons references more... I'm OK with that.

 

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

The Simpsons was the reason I tried to watch Paint Your Wagon.

"He's not braggin', he's gonna coat that wood..."

 

He's dreamy...

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

 

 

WELCOME THRILLHO

[kateacola 2440]

"He's not braggin', he's gonna coat that wood..."

 

He's dreamy...

"Gotta use oil-based paint, cause the wood is Piiiine" Lol

 

If the songs in the movie were more like the Simpsons parody, it would've been a WAAAY better musical.

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

(also, kateacola, I keep meaning to say how much I love your avatar - transports me back to that 'Hot Fuzz' 'Romeo and Juliet' every time and it never fails to make me laugh)

[kateacola 2440]

(also, kateacola, I keep meaning to say how much I love your avatar - transports me back to that 'Hot Fuzz' 'Romeo and Juliet' every time and it never fails to make me laugh)

 

 

Hot Fuzz is one of my favorite movies. It gets funnier & funnier every time I watch & I've watched it many times.

 

[JammerLea 2070]

I can't keep up on the Shakespeare stuff, though I do like Shakespeare in general. Taming of the Shrew was my favorite in high school.

 

I do have this neat book called "Shakespeare in the Movies" that I picked up sometime in college, which of course is outdated now, but it was a pretty fun read comparing the different cinematic releases at that time. I need to look over it again some day. It's been ages.

 

 

 

 

 

Also Hot Fuzz is great!

[Cakebug Tranch 6873]

I do have this neat book called "Shakespeare in the Movies" that I picked up sometime in college, which of course is outdated now, but it was a pretty fun read comparing the different cinematic releases at that time. I need to look over it again some day. It's been ages.

 

 

 

(sorry)

 

That Douglas Brode book is widely discredited in the field now: it's really badly researched and written like a nine year old with fingerpaint.

 

I kinda... hate it.

 

(sorry)

 

He for realz refers to Shakespeare as 'Gentle Will' on most occasions. I have to hook you up with a better Shakespeare on film text, I think, Jam.

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

 

Hot Fuzz is one of my favorite movies. It gets funnier & funnier every time I watch & I've watched it many times.

 

 

 

 

How does everyone feel about The World's End? I want to like it more than I do...

 

[Cameron H. 23786]

 

 

 

(sorry)

 

That Douglas Brode book is widely discredited in the field now: it's really badly researched and written like a nine year old with fingerpaint.

 

I kinda... hate it.

 

(sorry)

 

He for realz refers to Shakespeare as 'Gentle Will' on most occasions. I have to hook you up with a better Shakespeare on film text, I think, Jam. ;)/>

 

Oh, Gentle CakeBug...'tis diffr'nt strokes, for diffr'nt folks to move the world.