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EPISODE #223 - Disclosure (1994)

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5 hours ago, theworstbuddhist said:

I don't really care how you interpret my post. I wasn't writing about your post, I was writing about the movie, and the point I was making is that a film like this- which made 300 million dollars apparently, and is still discussed decades after it was made - does more harm than good to male victims.

Suffering isn't a contest. The patriarchy hurts everyone, and must be destroyed if people of whatever gender are to be truly free.

I fully agree. I'm sorry, like I said I clearly misread what you wrote. 

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I wish to address a statement about Demi Moore during the podcast, because it rubbed me the wrong way.

"Demi Moore is hot in this movie!"

Motherfucker, Demi Moore is ALWAYS hot, and always will be hot!

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Even though it was a small moment in the film, I was surprised that the "Happy to be me Barbie" was not discussed in this episode.  When Michael Douglas and Dennis Miller's wives are at dinner, they are discussing whether or not to get such an item for the daughter for Christmas.  I thought that this was maybe a joke, but there is some reality to this item.  A "Happy to be me" doll exists, but it was not made by Mattel (the company that makes Barbie).  It was designed to be the anti-Barbie.

Here's a picture of the doll:

3027323-inline-i-happy.jpg

On the back of the packaging it says "Let's face it.  Girls don't grow up to have fashion doll bodies.  The "Happy To Be Me" doll gives your child a more realistic model of the female anatomy.  Our doll doesn't look like a fashion doll because real women don't have pinched waists, tiny feet, and legs disproportionately long for their bodies.  Real women move and bend their arms and legs.  So does the "Happy To Be Me" doll.  And that makes her more fun.  She can read a book, ride a bike and wave goodbye.  Ultimately, we believe playing with the "Happy To Be Me" doll will help your child grow up to be happier with who she is."

The doll debuted back in 1991 by a company called High Self-Esteem Toys Corp.  A year after the initial doll's debut, her creator, Cathy Meredig, who had poured $90,000 of her own money into manufacturing the line, started developing dolls of different races and ethnicities as well.  I could not find any evidence that it is still in existence today and clearly kids were not interested in playing with a more "realistic" doll (Although I am not sure how "realistic" it is when its thighs still do not touch and its measurements still come out to be 36-27-38).  But if you are still interested in buying one for your kid, you can still buy one of these dolls on ebay for about $13.

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20 hours ago, RyanSz said:

For June I can recall these for the love list: Daredevil, Odd Life of Timothy Green, Grease 2, Teen Witch, Drop Dead Fred, Disclosure, Crank 2

Don't forget ... um, Unforgettable

14 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

Taking a step back and being less gross, here are a few of my favorite lines that Paul and everyone did not mention:

Michael Douglas to Demi Moore, after her failed seduction attempt:

“you take those two champagne bottles in your refrigerator and you go fuck them!”

Also, There’s the great line Paul and everyone mentioned when Michael Douglas is having his meltdown:

“Sexual harassment is about power. When did I have the power?”

But then he follows it up with a line I love even more:

“Why don’t I be that evil white male you’re all complaining about? Then I can fuck everybody!”

Then, near the end, Donald Sutherland randomly says to everyone in the office:

“This merger is the most interesting merger Ive had since my second marriage!”

My favorite line not to get mentioned was when Sutherland says at the end, "I was so focused on finding the right woman for the job, when I should've been looking for the right person," which is totally a line meant to set up Michael Douglas getting the job, but then he gives it to another woman.

If I were Rosemary Forsythe, I'd be fucking offended by the implication of that statement. He doesn't think Stephanie Kaplan is attractive enough to warrant thoughts about "women," just "people?" Go right on and do one, Donald Sutherland, you stupid national treasure, you.

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I don't think anyone brought it up on the podcast but when my wife and I listened to the episode I remembered that Donald Sutherland, when he was about Michael Douglas' age in this film, was in a film called Don't Look Now that is still regarded as having one of the greatest sex scenes in film history. It is a VERY DIFFERENT film though, and the scene is happening under very different circumstances.

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On 9/27/2019 at 1:59 PM, gigi-tastic said:

 

 

 

The movie is correct in the idea that a lot of sexual harassment is about power. It's also a way to punish people who do not meet the ideal gender norms and for men in particular, those who are not sufficiently like the idealized version of their (perceived) gender

I wanted to thank Gigi-tastic  for bringing up that sexual assault does happen to men and that it’s about power and not sex. 

I would actually like the forums to weigh in on this. It is only tangentially related to this film but it has bothered me since I heard it. You guys may know that there are sexual misconduct allegations against Michael Douglas, and also that there are also long-standing rumors that Kirk Douglas was a sexual predator (it is alleged that he raped Natalie Wood when she was 16). 

When Kirk was honored at the Golden Globes (apparently as a eff you to the ladies wearing Times Up pins), I read some articles about the rumors around him. There is one story that he readily admits to: 

Quote

n fact, he said he once used sex to punish a woman he knew was an anti-Semite.

He said he took the woman to bed, keeping the fact he was Jewish a secret until the climatic moment, when he screamed:

“I am a Jew! You are being f— by a Jew!”

Now, obviously, no one likes an anti-Semite and there is some triumph in this. But I was also deeply disturbed with how he used sex as a weapon. Like why not tell her when she’s all hot for you and say, “I can’t fuck you because you are an asshole”. Why do it mid act? It seems like sexual violence in some form.

Am I wrong about this? 

This quote from: https://nypost.com/2016/12/08/how-kirk-douglas-charmed-old-hollywoods-finest-beauties/ I can’t find the original article I read it in. 

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On 9/28/2019 at 7:43 PM, Elektra Boogaloo said:

Now, obviously, no one likes an anti-Semite and there is some triumph in this. But I was also deeply disturbed with how he used sex as a weapon. Like why not tell her when she’s all hot for you and say, “I can’t fuck you because you are an asshole”. Why do it mid act? It seems like sexual violence in some form.

Am I wrong about this? 

This quote from: https://nypost.com/2016/12/08/how-kirk-douglas-charmed-old-hollywoods-finest-beauties/ I can’t find the original article I read it in. 

I agree with you. On the one hand, they’re both consenting adults, and as such, they should be able to have sex for whatever reason they wish. On the other hand, he purposefully withheld information in order to humiliate her, only to reveal in a particularly vulnerable moment. Just because she’s a piece of crap doesn’t excuse him for using sex as a weapon of retaliation.

Even waiting until she’s “hot for him” to spring it on her is pretty bullshit, imo.

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2 hours ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

You guys may know that there are sexual misconduct allegations against Michael Douglas

 I did remember those allegations when I was watching Disclosure. It added a weird layer of irony to the entire film for me.

RE: Kirk Douglas...holy shit. I agree, that is just all kind of wrong. Using sex to “punish a woman” (or ANYBODY) is some sort of super-aggressive ego-driven bullshit.

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5 hours ago, Elektra Boogaloo said:

I wanted to thank Gigi-tastic  for bringing up that sexual assault does happen to men and that it’s about power and not sex. 

I would actually like the forums to weigh in on this. It is only tangentially related to this film but it has bothered me since I heard it. You guys may know that there are sexual misconduct allegations against Michael Douglas, and also that there are also long-standing rumors that Kirk Douglas was a sexual predator (it is alleged that he raped Natalie Wood when she was 16). 

When Kirk was honored at the Golden Globes (apparently as a eff you to the ladies wearing Times Up pins), I read some articles about the rumors around him. There is one story that he readily admits to: 

Now, obviously, no one likes an anti-Semite and there is some triumph in this. But I was also deeply disturbed with how he used sex as a weapon. Like why not tell her when she’s all hot for you and say, “I can’t fuck you because you are an asshole”. Why do it mid act? It seems like sexual violence in some form.

Am I wrong about this? 

This quote from: https://nypost.com/2016/12/08/how-kirk-douglas-charmed-old-hollywoods-finest-beauties/ I can’t find the original article I read it in. 

I feel all kinds of disgusted by all of this.  I think it's also important that we look at the language used here. He didn't say " You're having sex with " he said " You're being FUCKED BY" which gives him even more power and puts this as an act he is committing not one that is being mutually done by both parties. Also that article was very gross the way he talked about several of the women I'm not so sure what he had would have been seen as a consenting above grade time with several of them.

  On the topic of Michael Douglas the survivor of his supposed harassment and abuse had a letter asking about how to fix sexual harassment in the workplace from the California Women's Law Center from 1993 . So around the time this movie was being made or was in post /starting to be advertised.

So... Yeah.  

 

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There is a possible cause for Kirk Douglas’ behavior that is briefly described in the article that Electra Boogaloo linked to In the New York Post (once again, the article is called  A look back at Kirk Douglas’ most famous sexual conquests, By Linda Massarella, December 8, 2016).

in the article, Ms. Massarella writes how Douglas’ sexual experiences started.

“It began with his English teacher, a Mrs. Livingston, who seduced him when he was 14, he said.”

Ummm, that’s rape. I get the feeling that Douglas might not view it as such, or has talked himself into the belief that it’s proof of his machismo, but at one point he appears to have been a victim.

I’m not saying that this excuses anything he’s done—not by a fucking long shot. But... I’ve worked in a middle school. Any 14-year-old that I know would be severely traumatized by a sexual encounter with their adult teacher. It would warp how they relate to people sexually. Perhaps Kirk Douglas is old-school and superhuman and immune to feeling vulnerable—and I honestly don’t know shit about him, he might be—but it wouldn’t be very hard to theoretically link his experience with his teacher to how he treated women in his life.

And I guess I did just that, as convincingly as I could.

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On 9/28/2019 at 1:27 AM, gigi-tastic said:

I agree that this movie is terrible. I also agree wholeheartedly that so called men's rights activists do not give a flying fuck for male survivors or the  well being of men in general.  For example On International Women's Day many of them demand an International Men 's Day even though that already exists and is November 19. Ironically the day is rarely googled on its actual date. They care about the fact women have a day at all not that they really want their own day.

I also agree that yes women are much more likely to be harassed.   I've had several conversations with other female friends about how we do not know *any* women who HAVEN'T been sexually assaulted or harassed including ourselves.

However I don't think that negates the fact this does happen to men as well and those survivors deserve every bit of respect and compassion as their female counterparts. It could just be my reading but it feels like you're saying that because a smaller number of harassment is reported it means less? That what they went through isn't as upsetting because women face worse? Again this could be my interpretation. I honestly don't think you can compare this kind of thing. It's deeply personal and affects each survivor differently.  I think that our society tends to fail people who speak out but I really think that we fail male survivors in a unique and horrible way. It's bad enough to not think you will be believed because the system is awful. Even worse when you think people won't believe you because of your gender.

 

You know something, far be it from me to tell personal stories, I'm just here to make stupid jokes and factoids.  However, this struck a chord with me.

I was walking to get a bus, and I happened upon a group of drunk older women on a hen party.  I got groped, had them try to take my jacket off, requesting that I get various body parts out, and various other things, and as I'm trying to walk off, they're trying to stop me.  People saw this and laughed and said "Go on, you're in there!" like I'd be interested in a gaggle of drunk older women.

I didn't feel threatened or harassed at the time, mainly because I'm 6' and I was 240lbs of pretty solid muscle, so no one's making me do anything I don't want to do.  However, in retrospect, if they'd have done that to someone a less physically developed for want of a better term, or someone who maybe had social issues or anxieties etc. It might have had a much worse effect on them, and what are they gonna be greeted with?

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What I couldn't wrap my head around with this movie is how a company that produces what's arguably the most boring and mundane piece of hardware (cd-rom players), and does a bad job of it at that, is also able to produce a fully functioning VR environment, which requires hardware and software about a thousand times more complex, but their main selling point remains those lousy cd-rom players?! Hell, just drop those players altogether and focus on the VR-system, which seems to be advanced even in today's standards! And maybe use it for something else other than as an inconvenient filing cabinet?

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12 hours ago, GrahamS. said:

There is a possible cause for Kirk Douglas’ behavior that is briefly described in the article that Electra Boogaloo linked to In the New York Post (once again, the article is called  A look back at Kirk Douglas’ most famous sexual conquests, By Linda Massarella, December 8, 2016).

in the article, Ms. Massarella writes how Douglas’ sexual experiences started.

“It began with his English teacher, a Mrs. Livingston, who seduced him when he was 14, he said.”

Ummm, that’s rape. I get the feeling that Douglas might not view it as such, or has talked himself into the belief that it’s proof of his machismo, but at one point he appears to have been a victim.

I’m not saying that this excuses anything he’s done—not by a fucking long shot. But... I’ve worked in a middle school. Any 14-year-old that I know would be severely traumatized by a sexual encounter with their adult teacher. It would warp how they relate to people sexually. Perhaps Kirk Douglas is old-school and superhuman and immune to feeling vulnerable—and I honestly don’t know shit about him, he might be—but it wouldn’t be very hard to theoretically link his experience with his teacher to how he treated women in his life.

And I guess I did just that, as convincingly as I could.

1000%! I just finished watching Fosse/ Verden and the show  has a flashback to Bob Fosse losing his virginity to two 40 something burlesque dancers at the theater he used to dance in as a kid. It was heartbreaking and disturbing. It's 10000000% assault. No child can give consent. It really bothers me that our culture sees young boys getting preyed on as a good thing. I can't count the number of times I've heard people joke when attractive female teachers have been caught abusing their male students  about how "lucky" that poor kid is.

Also sort of random but have you ever noticed how when they show photos of those women they always seem to use nice pictures?  Like photos from social media where they are smiling and pretty instead of their mug shot. They committed a DESPICABLE crime why are you showing them at their best?!?

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I keep thinking about how a set of VR filing cabinets that are exactly the same as real ones is nihilistic to the point that it could have been a gag on Rick and Morty.

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On 9/27/2019 at 10:03 PM, RyanSz said:

For June I can recall these for the love list: Daredevil, Odd Life of Timothy Green

Naw, man. She and Paul didn’t like Timothy Green. It was Jason and Tim Heidecker that liked it 😉

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I can’t say I have much to add that wasn’t discussed on the episode, but I really didn’t  feel like The Corridor came off as particularly user friendly. It all felt pretty counter intuitive, Clippie the Angel was practically useless, and Demi Moore proved that using a regular, ten dollar ball mouse was quicker for locating and deleting files than wandering for miles in a Naboo palace.

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3 hours ago, Cameron H. said:

Naw, man. She and Paul didn’t like Timothy Green. It was Jason and Tim Heidecker that liked it 😉

Ah I thought that was in the likes, though I haven't listened to that episode in a long time.

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9 hours ago, gigi-tastic said:

1000%! I just finished watching Fosse/ Verden and the show  has a flashback to Bob Fosse losing his virginity to two 40 something burlesque dancers at the theater he used to dance in as a kid. It was heartbreaking and disturbing. It's 10000000% assault. No child can give consent. It really bothers me that our culture sees young boys getting preyed on as a good thing. I can't count the number of times I've heard people joke when attractive female teachers have been caught abusing their male students  about how "lucky" that poor kid is.

Also sort of random but have you ever noticed how when they show photos of those women they always seem to use nice pictures?  Like photos from social media where they are smiling and pretty instead of their mug shot. They committed a DESPICABLE crime why are you showing them at their best?!?

Yeah, my thoughts on this is that a lot of really fucked-up sexual shit went on in the past that people didn't consider a big deal back then but probably did warp a lot of people sexually, in ways they didn't realize. It's why I try not to be too judgy about old stories like this -- they didn't have the same perspective we do now.

If the intent in raising the story is to help teach other people what not to do now, then yes absolutely. If it's to say that Kirk Douglas or whoever was a bad person and don't watch his movies anymore, then no thanks.

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17 hours ago, Smigg. said:

 

You know something, far be it from me to tell personal stories, I'm just here to make stupid jokes and factoids.  However, this struck a chord with me.

I was walking to get a bus, and I happened upon a group of drunk older women on a hen party.  I got groped, had them try to take my jacket off, requesting that I get various body parts out, and various other things, and as I'm trying to walk off, they're trying to stop me.  People saw this and laughed and said "Go on, you're in there!" like I'd be interested in a gaggle of drunk older women.

I didn't feel threatened or harassed at the time, mainly because I'm 6' and I was 240lbs of pretty solid muscle, so no one's making me do anything I don't want to do.  However, in retrospect, if they'd have done that to someone a less physically developed for want of a better term, or someone who maybe had social issues or anxieties etc. It might have had a much worse effect on them, and what are they gonna be greeted with?

I’ve debated whether to share this story or not, but fuck it, it’s been over 20 years. Smigg’s post this morning (and other posts previous) reminded me of it. I’m not sharing it to be all “boo hoo, woe is me,” but to shed some light on it, if only for myself.

When I worked at a movie theater in high school and college I was sexually harassed. The cultural environment at the theater was pretty much like Clerks (which seemed like a documentary when it came out)—bored minimum-wage twenty-somethings talking about sex for most of the shift. The theater I worked at was close to my childhood home and I loved movies, so I went to get a job there the summer before my senior year. The theater was on Capitol Hill in Seattle, on Broadway, which was an area that was the hub of gay culture in the city.

To give some context about me, I was a white, male, middle class seventeen year old. I was average looking and had some acne. I had a reclusive and somewhat shitty high school existence  where I was occasionally bullied. Sexually, I was straight but asexual.

So my clueless unsexual ass took a job in a highly sexualized environment (this was 1992, to give more context). One of the positives of the job was that I got to broaden my worldview. Some of my friends at the time were homophobic and that had been my filter although I wasn’t 100% sold on it. Working in an environment where the majority of my co-workers were gay wiped away any ill-informed prejudice that I had. But I also got hit on. A lot. By customers, and one co-worker (who was 35) who constantly liked to comment on how my ass looked in my jeans (whether it looked that great or not, who am I to judge). It did make me feel like a piece of meat when I simply was trying to be professional and polite.

Since I was a shy guy, a lot of the staff got their kicks from making me embarrassed over sexual stuff. The worst offender was a 23–year-old newly out lesbian who insisted—whenever she embarrassed me—that she was “doing it for my own good.” I still don’t know what the fuck she meant by that. She would frequently grab me and jam her tits in my face, while yelling “oh Yeah!”

There was one time where I was eating lunch and she yelled out “Hey Graham, wanna see my tits?”

i said “Sure,” because I was tired of her shit and wanted to be left alone. Plus, the theater was in the upper level of a fucking mall and I was sitting near the ticket stand. How was she gonna flash me?

she laughed, came over, walked behind me (in the middle of me eating a burrito or pizza or some fucking mall food) and shoved her T-shirt over my head while she was still wearing it. I could feel her boobs on top of my head. She pulled it off and laughed and the guy behind the concession stand laughed like it was a hilarious joke. I think she legitimately thought it was funny and that I thought it was funny. She referenced it a few more times during later shifts.

So I realize, while writing this down that this all sounds super fucked-up and I’m probably over sharing. I’m not trying to turn this into therapy (and by the  way, the more aggressive harassment stuff didn’t happen until after I was 18 btw, not that that makes it any more excusable). This shit doesn’t dominate my life now and I’m reasonably happy. But these memories were triggered by earlier posts and I figured I’d share it as an example of how guys can get harassed. I’m ok with people reading it. i’m Ok if Paul does or doesn’t read it. I’m actually in a better mood now that I’ve written it. Hopefully I didn’t trigger anybody with it.

 

 

 

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On 9/28/2019 at 11:06 AM, GrahamS. said:

I grew up in Seattle and I will give Disclosure this much credit: it was actually shot here. Many movies SAY they are filmed in Seattle but are actually filmed in Vancouver, because (a) it’s cheaper and (b) Washington does a terrible job providing tax breaks and incentives for movies to be able to afford to shoot here. 

Basically, that’s a long-winded way to say, when a whole movie is shot here (not just exteriors and shots of the Space Needle) that’s a BIG deal. Especially when that movie stars Michael Douglas, Demi Moore, Donald Sutherland and was directed by Barry Levinson.

I was in between high school and college when Disclosure came to town. Since I had never seen a film shoot before and loved films, I was very excited. The scene where Dennis Miller embarrasses Michael Douglas at a fancy dinner in front of his wife, that was shot four blocks from the house where I grew up! It was filmed at the Volunteer Park Conservatory at a beautiful old greenhouse made up to look like a fancy restaurant (it was also the greenhouse where Annabella Sciora worked in The Hand That Rocks The Cradle, BTW). My younger brother and I walked up and stared at all the production trucks lining the street, hoping to get a glimpse of somebody, anybody. Time may have distorted this memory, but I still can picture how all the lights made the park seem like it was glowing.

December rolled around and people packed into the Cinerama (a giant old-school theater that still exists) to see Disclosure on its opening weekend. Me, (now in college), my parents and my brother (now in high school) were among them. The film started, everyone was excited to see our hometown on film. Two hours and ten minutes later, the vibe of the entire theater was “I guess that was ...good...right?”

Rewatching it 25 years later, I can’t even say that. But it is hilarious!

If they truly wanted to make this more Seattle they should have done it at a trot or a gallop and done the Puyallup and ran into John Keister at the fundraising event.

As someone who grew up in Victoria, making local Seattle references gives me great pleasure.

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Okay so at the start this movie Michael Douglas's character puts a tie on because he assumes he's getting a promotion. His young son has no idea what a tie is and has to have it explained to him. What? Look I get that Michael Douglas is a hip and cool guy and therefore he doesn't do ties. Nah, we're talking Mikey Dougs. He's business casual to the max. Heck, he probably sits backwards in chairs at meeting to show how cool and with it he is on top of lack of tie. However, how come his child doesn't know what a tie is? He's going to school with his sister so that puts him at at least 5 or 6. So Michael Douglas doesn't wear a tie to work, but has this kid not seen a tie anywhere else? Has he never had a work colleague stop by with one on in years? Has his son never been to a wedding, funeral or other formal event? Has he never seen his parents watching the news or seen a kids show with a character wearing a tie? Is there no wedding photo in the house? I know it's just a stupid line to set up how lax and cool Mikey Dougs is, but realistically how can a child get to the age of 5 or 6 and never seen a tie before? On top of that Michael Douglas wears two more completely different ties later in the movie when he goes to arbitration. He owns at least three ties, so why can't he change into one of those ties instead of wearing the tooth paste covered one? 

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My post about he adult movies of the 90s, I talked about a channel called "L!VE TV", and I got this wave of nostalgia, so I went back and had a look at some of the high-brow entertainment that this channel provided.  So, remember, this are actual shows that were broadcast on this channel.

The Weather, in Norwegian - This show was basically the weather, but said in Norwegian by ridiculously good looking woman, Anne Marie Foss.  On the weekends, she wore a bikini.
Britain's Bounciest Weather - When it wasn't Anne Marie Foss creating pressure in the south, a midget would forecast the weather, on a tampoline.
Blue Review - Imagine Siskel and Ebert, if Siskel was a greasy haired "lad", and Ebert was 90s Alternative Teenage crush, Emily Booth.... and they reviewed porn.
Topless Darts - Two women play darts, with no tops on.
Tiffany's Big City Tips - This is financial news, presented by a woman who would remove clothing during the show
Red Shoe Diaries/Compromising Situations/Passion Cove - Playboy Channel "dramas".
Threesome - an "erotic soap opera", starring Emily Booth.
Strip Masterbrain - A quiz show, where models would answer questions, and have to take an item of clothing off when they answer incorrectly
Frontier Wrestling Alliance - Taking advantage of the growing popularity of the "Attitude Era" of wrestling, L!VE TV started broadcasting quality british wrestling.  I distinctly remember one storyline where popular masked wrestler, Big Daddy T, was arrested for going into a bank, refusing to take his mask off, and being mistaken for a bank robber.
The News - This was just the news, with someone piss arsing around in the background, wearing a bunny costume.

It was stupid, it was cheap, but I miss it.  And I still have a crush on Emily Booth.  Yeah, there might be things like Babestation, and the internet, but there isn't that fun, cheekiness to it.  L!VE TV had a more tongue-in-cheek, nudge-nudge-wink-wink fun to it.
 

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My job has a ton of overlap with DigiCom so there were certain details about this movie I found very funny.  The biggest one being that the entire premise of the movie would have never happened.  As soon as they found out there was a critical manufacturing problem with Arcamax Michael Douglas would have had his ass on a plane to Malaysia so he wouldn't be around to get sexually harassed.

 It was also funny that the Kato Kaelin guy was apparently one of the lead developers of the VR system but also the one who is doing failure analysis on CD-ROM drives.  Hopefully the Conley company did their due diligence and know if they lose Kato DigiCom is worthless.  But Conley should have killed the deal even after the Arcamax problem was solved.  No way they should purchase a company where it is possible to make major manufacturing changes and the head of manufacturing is completely in the dark.  DigiCom's Product Lifecycle Mangement (PLM) system gets an F.

I'm just putting all of this out there because I hope to get hired as a consultant for the Disclosure remake.

 

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@Smigg. & @GrahamS. I want to honestly thank the both of you for opening up to us all. I know personally how hard it is to even talk about this, but y'all are doing a good thing (much better than this fucking movie) and we're all here with y'all. My experiences with sexual assault and harassment started when I was just 11 years old, and has continued well into my 20s, so I seriously want to thank y'all for sharing today.

To make an incredibly dark subject light again because I'm sure none of us can deal without trying to make each other laugh I present this.

TallPrestigiousGar-size_restricted.gif

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3 minutes ago, taylorannephoto said:

@Smigg. & @GrahamS. I want to honestly thank the both of you for opening up to us all. I know personally how hard it is to even talk about this, but y'all are doing a good thing (much better than this fucking movie) and we're all here with y'all. My experiences with sexual assault and harassment started when I was just 11 years old, and continued well into my 20s, so I seriously want to thank y'all for sharing today.

To make an incredibly dark subject light again because I'm sure none of us can deal without trying to make each other laugh I present this.

TallPrestigiousGar-size_restricted.gif

 

The funny thing is, I was actually told "Yeah, but if they were hot, you'd have gone along with it!", whether I would or wouldn't have in that situation is irrelevant this situation, I wasn't interested in THIS group of women.  But, I consider myself quite lucky, because it had no impact on my life other than mild annoyance at the time, and an anecdote for later in life.

But it is interesting in to share when discussing stuff like that, even without going into the "Oh well, if my mates and I did that, we'd be in trouble!" yes, you would be, they should have been too.  But, I was also lucky to have been raised by my amazing mother, who instilled this "Don't take it from anybody" attitude, and innate "Brick Shit House" genetics which allowed me to tell them to fuck off, and push my way through, someone else might have been REALLY fucked up from it, especially not receiving any form of help.

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