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Tres interesante! I hadn't thought of that. Reminds me of a description I read about the movie that shall not be named (It rhymes with Bite Schlub): The men of Project Mayhem, in the end, were just doing the same jobs they had done in the corporate world! They were just working for Tyler now instead of The Man. They thought they were escaping but then became the same nameless, faceless drones they were before. Except for Robert Paulsen (Paulson?) did we ever learn any of their names?

What I thought was interesting about the stage was that it was a perfect box which was basically how he described the office building at the beginning. I wondered if he was drawing a parallel between the two, but I ran out of time on my rental and couldn’t rewatch the scene to really compares.

Why was there such a disparity in the singing of Louis' song between him meeting bed lady and the talent show? When he met bed lady he was all "This is a song I wrote. Not sure it's very good. Please don't tell me you hate it." It sounded like he was going to sing it acapella or maybe with a piano backing him. Then he comes out on stage with a backing group, arrangements and no fear at all! Did the voodoo guy put all that together, including confidence for Louis?

I bought the soundtrack to A Star is Born immediately after watching the movie. I've also been pushing it on people I know.

Definitely the best speech of the night. I also liked Bradley Cooper and Lady Gaga's performance. Some people found it weird and uncomfortable, but that is also why I liked it.

For that matter, even with it all being pre-fab, wasn't that talent show stage just a little outsized for the small town? Not to mention the lighting not being pre-fab (I mean the ones hanging from the stage, not the built-in blue lighting surrounding the whole structure.) Part of David Byrne's fantasy I'm sure. Just seems an abrupt shift from the low-tech fashion show at the mall to the high-tech talent show.

I loved the Shallow segment too! I love the song to begin with and I loved that it looked nothing like the rest of the Oscars.

I agree that we’re just not going to see eye to eye on this and that’s fine. Sometimes that’s just how it goes. However, if I may, I guess my thing with “consensual” sex is that if either partner ever has any doubts, no matter what the reason, then it’s not 100% consensual. He can be attracted to her and enjoy having sex with and still not want to have sex with her. In fact, that’s a very common problem - especially among young people who are trying to figure their shit out. So if he says, “I don’t want to do this,” then that should be it. But it’s not. She uses his indecision and doubt to manipulate him.

I think we've essentially reached an impasse on this point, but I will say that the fact that he debates whether or not it's "right" doesn't have anything to do with whether or not it's consensual. It seems that we are disagreeing on the amount of agency that Benjamin has when he decides to follow through, but the issues of his agency and his internal debate about the morality of it are very separate issues. If someone has misgivings about committing a crime and they still do it, their misgivings don't grant them pardon. (False equivalence? Maybe, but hopefully you see my point.) You're absolutely right about this, because as I said before, I hadn't considered just how vile the first scene at her house is until you pointed it out. I really honed in on Benjamin's creepy pursuit of Elaine on this rewatch while completely ignoring the parallel with Mrs. Robinson's pursuit of Benjamin. So again, while I'll agree to disagree on Ben's level of agency in the consummation part of the relationship, I'm still happy that you and Cameron and Taylor brought it up, because it's a great point that deserved to have been discussed on the podcast.

I don't actually ever watch the ceremony because I hate award shows. I just check the results. I did watch Lady Gaga and Bradley Cooper perform on youtube though because I love that song. That was really nice.

I might also have to soften a little on saying Viggo "should" have won for Eastern Promises, because that was the year Daniel Day-Lewis won for There Will Be Blood. That's a tough year to be up for Best Actor. (I still woulda voted for Viggo though.)

Also, as Cameron said, I don't think anyone is a villain or evil in this movie even though she is sexually assaulting Benjamin in my mind. I just wish this had been addressed. They mention Benjamin being creepy but Mrs. Robinson gets a tossed off "Ben is prey" but gets a lot of "sexy and confident"

I think she's doing grooming behavior that a lot of child molesters do. Ask for something innocent like a ride home, then up the stakes a bit every time they finally agree. I admit that Ben is old enough and intelligent enough. But I think he's not emotionally intelligent enough. Maybe he's just socially awkward but he seemed emotionally stunted to me (not that I have any credentials to dismiss that). I don't like getting too far into the gender reversal since it's 1. a reliable dog whistle for men's rights activists and 2. ignoring the difference in power dynamics between the genders. So, there isn't a 1:1 comparison in my mind but, as Cameron has said and you've acknowledged, we probably would react differently if they were reversed. Despite all that, I also think the movie wants the audience to think this is initially what Benjamin wants and is good for him. Mrs. Robinson is a matronly version of a manic pixie dream girl. Benjamin secretly wants a woman, any woman, to come on to him because he's incapable of being the man he wants to be. So, even though he verbally says no, I think he wants it to happen (and I'm very aware of how dangerous this all is but I think the movie intends us to think it).

I don’t see her as “villainous” exactly. Certainly not at that point in the movie. I think she’s a sad woman. And I think Ben is sad. The only reason I’ve been discussing any of this is because, as Grudlian stated, it wasn’t brought up in the podcast, and I agree with him that that is unfortunate as it’s definitely an angle worth being explored - especially as it relates to our contemporary context. There are layers and nuance going on in this movie, and painting any one character as either all good or all bad is pretty myopic. I’m just pointing out that her actions in the film do come off as predatory. As far as his fundamental beliefs and whatever, when he says “no,” that should be it. When he delivers the famous “You’re trying to seduce me line” she turns it back on him and embarrasses him, even though she knows that’s exactly what she’s doing - effectively taking control of the situation. Like, I’d have no issue if Mrs R went up to Ben and was like, “Yo! You DTF?” and he was like, “Yuppers.” But that’s not how it’s presented in the movie. I have an issue with trying to say the relationship is 100% consensual and no big deal when that’s not what the movie shows us. In fact, much of the first part of the movie is him debating whether what they’re doing is “right.”

And my point is, just because a person makes the call themselves at a later point, doesn’t mean they aren’t still being manipulated. It’s kind of like how the best conmen trick you into thinking that whatever they want you to do is your idea. She knows the state of mind he’s in and she knows what to do and what to say to get her desired result. No, she doesn’t rape him, but she definitely manipulates him into thinking something that he believes to be fundamentally wrong - something he has already said “no” to multiple times and even calls “gross” - might be okay. That’s not what he has always thought; it’s what she’s made him think. And when he starts to doubt it, she uses other tactics to keep him in line.

But what if I were to say, “Yes, her 40-year-old family friend locked her in a bedroom and exposed himself to her, but she’s 20! She knew what she was doing...” Him being 20 just makes it not statutory rape, and just because he calls Mrs. R doesn’t mean he’s not still being manipulated. That’s why she’s okay with letting him go the first time. She knows that he’ll call her. She’s counting on it. Also, I don’t think Ben necessarily is “of sound mind.” I’m not saying he’s crazy, but he is very much adrift and vulnerable. As far as power dynamics, no she isn’t threatening to not hire him for a job or anything, but she knows he’s a low frame of mind and knows that his family, and later Elaine, would be upset if they ever find out what’s going on. She uses his fear of discovery and their disapproval against him to get what she wants. And when he tries to assert control by telling Elaine what happened, she says he raped her.

I was impressed that despite there not being a big real-life age difference between the actors, the difference between the on-screen characters seemed totally believable to me. Usually that doesn't work.

Did you guys anything about the Oscars this year? One of my favorite moments was when Olivia Colman won best actress. Ngl I got teary eyed even before she started speaking.

Glad you found it. I have no regrets buying this version.

Thomas Jeff-er-son, I hardly knew her son.

Does my ass look big in this field of miniature donkeys?

In space no one can hear you scream. But in spatz everyone can hear you scram.

Yeah, there was this rush of documentaries in the early 2000s that just grabbed people and people just think that's what documentaries are or should be. It bums me out because great documentaries don't have much bias (or as little as can reasonably expected from people editing down years of footage to a couple hours). There's a world of difference between what Michael Moore or Dinesh D'Souza does and someone like Erroll Morris or the Maysles. Where would documentaries be if, instead of Enron Smartest Guys In The Room and Fahrenheit 9/11 getting audiences, Capturing The Friedmans or Hoop Dreams did?

I think one of the problems is with looking at documentaries as "news reporting." They are not. They're just not fictionalized, which sets them apart from the usual narrative films you see; they are, however, assembled footage of real life events intended to point you towards whatever artistic message the filmmakers want to deliver. There should be no expectation of "covering everything" or being "unbiased." My issue with RBG is that I don't feel like it was all that focused a take on its subject. Won't You Be My Neighbor? definitely was, IMO. Your mileage may vary, of course.

As a female lawyer, RGB really spoke to me and it was special that the movie exists. I will concede that there’s little that I already knew, but I still think it’s really important to bring that to a larger audience who might not know anything aside the memes. Do I think it was Oscar worthy? I dunno. Certainly the nod will get more eyes on it and that’s a good thing. I share your sentiments on Won’t You Be My Neighbor. Rogers was a really fascinating and complicated guy and I think there was a lot that was just glossed over, like his obsession with the number 143. I didn’t leave the theatre as moved as everyone else. I felt unsatisfied.