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I honestly try to think of Nightmare 2 as little as possible. But here in Prom Night 2 I think the physics work a little differently. In fact, I don't think Mary Lou actually came out of Vicki at all. When Vicki is found in the trunk at the end of the movie she's soaking wet, which implies to me she's been stuck in the nether realm since the moment she was sucked into the blackboard. I think Mary Lou actually just manifested a replica of Vicki's body so she could walk around without drawing too much attention to herself. So when she shed Vicki's skin she was really just taking off a costume, and then after she was "defeated" Vicki was let out of that nether realm and reappeared in the trunk, which appears to be some form of doorway to wherever Mary Lou has been chilling since the 50s.

The thing about Film Noir is that studios and filmmakers in the 40s weren't aware that they were working within this genre, it was a term applied by French film critics and not embraced by American filmmakers of the 40s and 50s. As far as they were concerned, they were making dramas. Chinatown is a self-aware, revisionist noir, consciously using the conventions of the genre, so it really cannot be placed in the same category as 40s and 50s films. Also, the films considered to be the first noirs are "The Maltese Falcon" (1941) and "Stranger on the Third Floor" (1940) - which means that Chinatown, set in 1937, takes place in a pre-noir era. The height of noir happened in the aftermath of World War II, and those films expose the dark side of the post-war prosperity. Chinatown, by contrast, is made in the aftermath of the Vietnam war, and it looks back four decades to create a narrative of corrupt institutions, and about the futility of good intentions that is more of a response to Vietnam, in the way that the classic noirs are deeply tied to World War II. So, I think it's a different dish.

They talked about the license plate at the end but I think there is much more to it than a knowing wink and "Mary Lou" powers at work. See the car they drive away in is that of Principal Nordham who accidentally killed Mary Lou at prom all those years ago and has gotten away with it since. In a case like this you think they would have caught him sooner given that Mary Lou was cheating on him and they had a confrontation at prom that night. Now, graduating high school kids would be right around the age to start driving and getting their first cars. So when Billy gets his first car he also gets a the custom plate of "MARYLOU2" as a tribute to his lost love. "I loved her officer," he tells the police, "so much that I didn't want to be without her so I named my car after her." He sells it and the police buy it, but the other kids who know what Mary was really like are still suspicious. So he keeps his license plate. Even when he gets a new car he transfers it over. He brings it up at parties "I lost Mary Lou, you better believe I'm not losing Mary Lou 2" he tells people and pretends to cry a little. People start to believe that he really loved her and maybe he didn't know about her indiscretions. He just keeps selling it and selling it. Eventually at university while studying education he meets a girl and falls in love. She asks about the plates and he goes into his sob alibi story. She falls for it and their son in conceived in the back of that car. This also explains his Titanic themed nightmare vision. Eventually people stop questioning or caring but Priniciapl Nordham gets lazy and never changes the license plate to something more normal. That is his license plate and it will always be.

So Mary Lou has many interesting powers. Paul and the gang talked about how weird it was she was able to kill not-Real Genius via electricity via the computer. However this glosses over the even more incredible power she has in that scene. Half a school away not-Real Genius is changing the results on the computer and she can sense it! She literally feels it the moment it is changed and then proceeds to grab an outlet to electrocute him. Does being a evil spirit also give you a Spider Sense that is tuned into prom king and queen status? In addition even though he types it into the computer she somehow uses her powers to change it back to herself anyway. If Mary Lou could change the results at any time why would she even need to try to get not-Real Genius to pick her anyway?

Here's my take on this because Treasure of the Sierra Madre is a film I love and Chinatown was a film I appreciated but not loved. I think the bleakness of Sierra Madre is a universal and more biblical bleakness. In Sierra Madre the "evil" are punished while the "good" are rewarded. Howard, while also a gold chaser, is the moral compass. He imparts wisdom and lessons that should be learned while Dobbs ignores them. The movie is bleak and says that man has many problems and vices and is prone to temptation and violence and a whole host of ills BUT it doesn't have to be that way. There is that hope or at least that silver lining that makes the audience member go "I would be like Howard not Dobbs... I hope." Meanwhile Chinatown is about how everybody and everything is terrible. The "evil" are rewarded and the "good" well... are there any? I guess Faye Dunaway is the closest and she is shot in the head. So the "good" get nothing. This is the far bleaker message for sure, but the message for the viewer is more along the lines of "you're a cog in a machine, and what you do doesn't matter." There is no moral center to guide us. Not to be confused with Gittes who seems to grow a moral conscious by the end of the film but given that he's a selfish character guided by self interest who's to say that his outrage is at the injustice of it all or because it wasn't his way? To compare Gittes to Dodds, you have these two similar in sense characters, except Dodds knows who he is and is that way to the end. The story is about the bleakness of man and how if we change there is hope for us. Chinatown is bleak and even if we do change it's for our own self interest and doesn't really matter anyway. It's giving you your medicine without the sugar, so that's why the one kind of bleakest is easier to swallow.

I think another problem Vicky had was that her boyfriend was married. In the second diner scene it appears that the actor has on a wedding band and they left it in. Unless that is an odd looking class ring that he's wearing on his ring finger.

ok, just watched the movie but haven't listened to the show yet. Does anyone bring up the obvious calls to other prom/dance related movies here? The stars motif definitely echoes Carrie and Kelly's red dress with the black polka dots looks SO much like Rizzo's from Grease. Is this Canada trying to understand American proms?

It is and it is

In a certain way I think you have to give a pass to some of the goofier aspects of the Moore Bond films. I mean they never tried to be as serious or as fun. So as much as I'd like to pick Octopussy as the worst it almost becomes enjoyable in its badness. I think Thunderball is the worst because it is just so boring. On a similar note I hate Die Another Day with a great passion as well.

The Third Man does have some voice-over, though it's just at the beginning and not from the protagonist.

I'll most likely be away this upcoming weekend so the tenth if possible please.

Yeah at first I thought she meant wings for flying but now I think it could be chicken wings?

I’m really trying to smooth this over. I don’t really know what else to say, man. I just meant that you seem to know a lot more than I do about noir - or care to know. If you tell me it’s not the same as Double Indemnity, then I believe you, because I’m not particularly interested in doing an in-depth compare and contrast. You don’t need to convince me further. If it came across as antagonistic, I’m sorry. The “I could go deeper?” struck me as extremely condescending and it’s possible that my annoyance with that affected the “tone” of my response. But I was actually being sincere.

I was so surprised that Bill, the boyfriend who lit Mary Lou on fire, was not Vicki’s father. It was a natural assumption, because right after the backstory of the fire, the first adult male we see is Vicki’s dad. Also this would have been a more interesting story if Mary Lou is getting revenge on Bill through his daughter. And finally, what kind a sociopath is Bill in that he works as a principal of the school where he murdered a former girlfriend?!

In the episode Jason and Seth mention this movie possibly having Christian themes. I would say this movie is clearly anti-religion. When the priest goes to Michael Ironside’s home to warn him about Mary Lou, he claims that he is protected because he is a priest. Later, when Vicki/Mary Lou comes to the confessional, he tries to stop her from attacking him by holding up his crucifix and chanting. Mary Lou is completely unphased by this and tells him there is no God Before killing him with his own crucifix. This scene also has one of the funniest lines in the movie when Mary Lou complains that one of the worst parts of the afterlife is that there’s “NO FUCKING WINGS”.

After watching this movie, I really want a Diet Pepsi.

Computer geek: “There’s a lot of advantages to a girl whose head spins around.” Really?

agreed. I Think You Should Leave is top notch funny. Most and most quickly I’ve laughed that hard in a long time. Some of the timing reminded me a bit of Mr Show which is not bad at all. Only watched a couple episodes so far, happy to have more left.

I fully endorse Mary Lou for prom queen of the world 2020

I'm surprised to see that so far no one seems to have mentioned how nearly every character given a last name in this film is named after a famous, infamous, or not-so-famous director, usually of the horror variety. Vicki' Carpenter, for John Carpenter Kelly Henenlotter for Frank Henenlotter (director of Basket Case and Frankenhooker) Monica Waters is possibly named for John Waters Jess Browning for Todd Browning, director of the original Bela Lugosi Dracula, Freaks, and others. The science teacher who gropes Vicki in class is Mr. Craven, for Wes Craven. Matthew Dante named for Joe Dante Eddie Wood for Ed Wood Another teacher is Mr. O'Bannon, probably named for Dan O'Bannon, screenwriter of Alien and writer/director of the first Return of the Living Dead And a couple other bit parts are named Mr. King and Mr. Romero. I'd never seen this movie until it was on the podcast, mainly because I'm not a huge slasher fan and I don't care much for the original Prom Night, but this was a ton of fun. I'm so glad it was covered and that it directed me towards Prime to check it out. This is maybe my favorite movie I've discovered through the podcast.

When Sammich found the Cage version on TV last week, it was missing the bee scene as well, which is a tragedy imo, because it's one of, if not the best scene. I'm really glad everyone seems to have enjoyed the original though! It definitely surprised me when I first watched it, especially the musical element. I definitely consider it horror, though it does seem subdued by today's standards. I certainly appreciate how well built the story is, and how normal the island society appears at first glance, as opposed to the obviously bizarre community that Cage visits. It makes it a bit more realistic. And I love that Howie gets to leave them with a curse.

She's an insanely talented and multi-faceted actor: from Monster to Arrested Development to (the criminally underrated) Young Adult to Atomic Blond to one of the best HDTGM guests of all time. Seriously, what can't Charlize Theron do?

Hi, sorry I missed my cue Charlie.

soup's on

^ my experience with trying to embiggen this image: "COMPUTER ENHANCE!" (clicked the image) (Image is now the same size, but now centered on a black screen) "COMPUTER ENHANCE FURTHER!" (clicked that image) (Image is now the same size, but in the top left corner and on a white screen) "Excellent." "Now can I see a hat wobble? And a flargunnstow?"