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"An eventual yes is not what someone should be striving for" I have to quote myself real quick, because this is exactly what Benjamin does to Elaine too. He is the prey that eventually becomes the predator and maybe this whole thing is really a commentary on how people that go through traumatic events themselves think of that as normal and reproduce the scenario with someone else.

Story of my life. I'm old, I remember seeing True Stories when it came out and enjoying it quite a bit. I wasn't a mega-fan of the Talking Heads but I did like them and still do. So many great character actors in this film, including the late Spalding Gray. Now I want to watch it again. And Swimming to Cambodia. Also, for those of you who are into the background music, you really oughta check out Byrne's solo records, his collaborations with various world music luminaries and Brian frigging Eno, and the other Talking Heads' members projects, like Tom Tom Club and Casual Gods. But especially the Byrne/Eno records.

One thing that they don't mention that I think could explain Benjamin quite a bit is that Benjamin went to college at 16. I thought maybe he only got an associate's degree since he graduated at 20 but they explicitly state he was in school for 4 years. I think being socially awkward, going to a men's only college, being much younger than everyone could definitely be a reason why he is the way he is. I think it's kind of weird that Paul and Amy kind of gloss over that Mrs. Robinson is basically a sexual predator in this. They mention Benjamin being prey but they also talk about how sexy and confidant she is repeatedly. I get Benjamin it's old enough to make his own decisions but she's still twice his age and he's very clearly saying no to her at every step of the way. I was really grossed out by it. I don't know if that completely colored my opinion of the movie as a whole. I can appreciate this movie on technical levels. It's well written and acted. The cinematography is great. But this didn't do anything for me.

Hands up if you want to see David Lynch and David Byrne make a film together. Maybe they already have. They could get Dave Foley, David Spade, David Hayter... (They all have their own hands, but they come from different moms.)

I don't have an inherent problem with "why him" being asked. I agree with you about them having shared emotions and being kind of rudderless. That's a perfectly fine reason to make a film about two broken people finding each other. But their commonalities would only be apparent to either of them after the relationship started. They definitely didn't know that before they start having sex. I think the "why Benjamin?" is answered the same way most sexual assaults can be answered: they thought they could. Mrs. Robinson might have wanted a dozen better looking guys. She knew she could get Benjamin whereas she might think Benjamin's more desirable peers were more likely to rebuff her advances. Again, I don't have an issue with a movie addressing any of these things. I have an issue with why didn't Amy and Paul discuss the sexual assault in this at any length. And it seems like no criticism I've ever seen of this movie ever brings it up. And I know Paul knows better because stuff he's said in HDTGM episodes. I'm sure Amy knows better (and I think that's part of the stuff she's hinted at by having problems with the movie) but I'm only familiar with her work on Unspooled. So, it's disappointing.

But the way that comes across to me is: “But he’s so boring, why not sexually assault someone more exciting, nice, dynamic, and...wet?” I’m not even sure if we’re supposed to “get” why Mrs. R is into him. To try and justify the type a person a victim should be, or should be more like, feels strangely exploitive. I definitely see it as a predatory situation though. She sees a vulnerable person and takes advantage of that. She literally locks herself in a room with him, naked, after he’s told her -repeatedly- he’s not interested. I mean, do we really have to ask what that looks like with a gender reversal? And just because he goes back to her, doesn’t justify her actions. If anything, it just confirms that she has successfully manipulated a naive and clearly vulnerable person. Even after the fact, once he has the courage to say that what they are doing is wrong and gross, she passive-aggressively twists his words as if they were an attack on her personally. So much so that he actually ends up staying and apologizing to HER! That’s classic abuser/victim shit right there. And that all started because he had the nerve to try and talk to her and make it a real relationship. And, no, I don’t agree with the Elaine stuff either, but I also don’t view the movie as a romance. And I don’t believe the movie is making that case as it is constantly calling him out for doing the wrong thing. No one is in the right here, and it’s definitely not a happy ending.

This has been in my head since I watched the movie

Well as the person who asked 'why Ben?' (along with Amy), it's not because 'only certain people get assaulted' that led me to ask that. I wrote on Letterboxd how I didn't particularly love the film, but I will defend the initial relationship with Mrs. Robinson. I think they're two depressed people, and I can get that they would fall into a connectionless sexual relationship, so I guess I've answered my own question. But it was a bit of a comment on how hollow he is, how bland, rude, mechanical, dry. The character gives us so very little. Anyway, he's using her too! I don't think it's all one direction to be honest. So maybe I'm awful, but I actually see it as a relationship and somewhat less predatory than you guys; that's why I was like 'why choose Ben?' But then on the other hand, we can't not talk about Ben's predatory nature towards Elaine -- a much more problematic situation, though I guess maybe it is all just a vicious cycle. But I agree with Taylor that isn't the film's point either, so I dunno. The whole movie feels like a mess to me because of all this.

I think this is an interesting take I that thought of. I don't think the movie intends it but the most beneficial reading. I should say I don't have an issue with sexual assault in a movie (depending on how it's handled and I think it's handled fine here). I just think it's gross and disappointing that anyone's going "why him? what's so great about Benjamin" with this movie when, in many other movies, we wouldn't attempt to justify a sexual predator's actions with how sad they are with their lot in life.

I've got the episode in my queue but it hasn't hit yet, but I'm really disappointed to hear this because this is exactly what I was hoping wouldn't happen. Mrs. Robinson absolutely takes advantage of him and we have to recognize every kind of predator no matter what in order for all victims to be taken seriously. It's been quite some time since I've first seen this movie, and in my memory Benjamin does consent to Mrs. Robinson, but as Grudlian says - he says no to her every step of the way before that. An eventual yes is not what someone should be striving for and looking onto this film with modern eyes does completely make it a gross movie (even taking out the fact that it stars Dustin Hoffman). It's one of those things where at 20 Benjamin thinks nothing of his encounter with Mrs. Robinson and then at 40 he has a mental breakdown over repressed trauma over the situation.

You’ve never heard of Guac and Roll?

Another thing I would add in here is that I think Paul is right in saying the movie is a comedy. Not a super-uproarious farce like Airplane! or something, but it is consistently a dryly humorous satire of the social mores of its time and the generation gap in particular. To ask for a "believable" romance with an attractive leading man in this context is kind of missing the point, IMO. Of course Benjamin and Mrs. Robinson are bad for each other and of course it doesn't make sense! The filmmakers know it too. They might not have had the same language about sexual predators that we do now, but I think they definitely see how these characters use sex and romance with other people as a salve for their own wounded egos. That's how the whole plot unravels: Mrs. Robinson uses Benjamin for her own purposes, then after Ben gets sick of it, he turns around and uses Elaine for his, and then when Elaine gets tired of being used for marriage, she runs back into Ben's arms even though she barely knows him. The final shot on the bus demonstrates how all of these people are just moving through their lives, uncertain about what they do or what's to come. Just having rebelled from the older people's ways doesn't mean you actually have a plan.

Ugh this month is so bad for me - I would love to watch either of these! But I have friends in town both weekends. Hopefully I can make the one in April! My new(ish) job has me actually busy, I feel bad I'm not hanging out here as much anymore lol.

I'm not quite so bothered with Mrs. Robinson, I get her anger and I think re: their relationship -- I can see two people in their situations falling into like that. I think there's enough of her story to get her, though like Amy said, still not answer the "why Ben" question. But yea, generally all the negging and stalkery persistence (I mean there's scenes when Elaine literally gets up and RUNS away from Ben) haven't aged well and are a bit skeevy and I had a tough time looking past them. I also was thinking of this in relation to Taxi Driver, but I'm not sure quite how to elucidate those thoughts yet. Maybe I'll give it another watch this weekend

Also, I should point as another case of interesting trivia the band Radiohead did indeed get their name from the song in True Stories.

Can not wait for the Conan episode they announced today. Going to be epic.

Lbr we all would've taken any performance over Casey Affleck that year, but truly Viggo was my best actor pick in that movie and I'm still mad it didn't get as recognized as it deserved.

The "my father really was a dumb stereotype" defense. In all seriousness though, that performance doesn't work at all for me. And sure, maybe it's the character's fault more than the actor, but I'm not about to laud Viggo for it. I feel like unfortunately, the academy does reward these situations, where some aspect of the filmmaking takes a film from complete shitshow to merely mediocre (cf. Bohemian Rhapsody's film editing, Christopher Plummer's nomination for All the Money in the World, etc.). Viggo was not able to make me relate to, or even care about this character in the slightest. Perhaps due to the writing, it was near impossible for any actor to do so, but that doesn't make for something impressive in my opinion. (However, I don't hold this failure against Viggo. I still would have taken his performance in Captain Fantastic two years ago over Casey Affleck, and I thought he was great in Eastern Promises too, as well as the LOTR series of course.)

That's fair. I wasn't aware Dr. Shirley was against making a movie about it. That definitely is going to make me rethink some stuff. I still think Viggo did a great job regardless of if it's a stretch to play the role. I see how "loud Italian thug" traditionally gets played in movies and Viggo had way more nuance to it even compared to people in the same movie. I don't think Mahershala Ali was stretching any more than Viggo was for his performance.

Yea to be perfectly honest, I found it on a torrent site. I'm not paying for this one.

I don't know, I think when people criticize Mortensen they are really criticizing the character as written more than the actor's performance. Personally, I think he did a great job playing a character who is written as a loud Italian thug; I don't think I've ever seen him play a character like that before. That doesn't mean I like that his character is given so much of the movie's focus, but that's a different question.

I still have "Wild Wild Life" stuck in my head and I am NOT sad about it.

The Name Of This Band Is Talking Heads. Sorry, but I had to do it.

@JammerLea - WHEELS ON MEALS Jackie Chan and Sammo Hung and Yuen Biao run a food truck in Barcelona and "deliver" food on skateboards. Bonkers.