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Also in my humble opinion this episode was nice, funny, and smart, but the conflict between the boys made it too scary for me. Hearing Sean and Hayes pretend to argue a little bit is like having someone tell you a mouse might have died in the room you're in. Just the idea that there could be a mouse skellington in the room and you don't even know it is terrifying. Good episode, but faint of heart listeners beware. This episode may be too scary. P.S. Tom is not an unfunny asshole. I think he's actually a pretty nice guy.

either i censored my own post while i was drunk in a fit of "on wee" (ennui) or someone censored me for me, but thank you to us for removing my embarrassing pandering. (also, yes, this is an incredibly good tom and in my making-my-way-through-HH-history archives I just happen to be on , Nov 17, 2015, Handbook East. Ep 110)

This is the second or possibly first best Tom episode in history, which seems improbably. And yet!

Yeah, his other movie looks like straight trash too. I'd like to think in a somewhat close alternate dimension, HDTGM can cover this movie because everything isn't a constant trash fire and we can safely laugh at this yabo with zero negative repercussions.

I just let out a shocked strangled "Paul!!!" To rival any June has ever uttered at hearing that Paul said he cried at The Hottie and the Nottie. I don't know whose more concerned my cat at my distress over whatever is going on with Paul or me worrying about Paul.

Hello Friendos! I made an Earwolf account now! It only took me about 6 years to get around to it but I finally made it! Am I literally too late? NoHorseMan said he was ready to declare the forums dead... Is that's true?

I honestly thought it was Zach Galifianakis in something like a Funny or Die type thing

Okay I believe it is time for the moments in movies when I get most frustrated... That's right it's time for This Week in Feminism. I was delighted to hear an audience member mention things that I also wanted to mention, because one of my first points was, "Where are the fucking women?" But the response of the crew didn't satisfy me and here's why - Yes, Hattie is a badass through and through. She was an operative for MI6 and went head to head with Luke Hobbs without even blinking an eye. She sacrificed herself so that Idris Elba wouldn't get the virus, and at the end of the day it was her plan that got the blood machine so that she could ultimately live. Definitely a badass. However, that doesn't actually answer the question. Hattie is one woman. To answer the question, "Where are the women?" with, "Well Hattie is a badass," implies that multiple women can't just be in scenes talking to each other because we already have the one woman being a badass and that's good enough right? They also mentioned the team of vigilante women lead by Eiza Gonzalez in Russia, but here's my problem with them - Only Eiza has any lines. There are 4 other women in this group and their only purpose for this movie is to look sexy in lingerie and be intimidating. That's not really showing any other badass women considering we never actually got to see them in action. The marketing for this movie completely hyped up Eiza's role and it really disappointed me that she didn't have anything better to do for a longer portion of the movie. Michelle Rodriguez had posted after F8 that if this franchise didn't step up it's representation of women then she would leave the series, and I think with this movie they took one tiny baby step in the right direction. Now I know this movie is a spin-off and has nothing to do with the set of movies that Michelle was actually talking about because she's in the camp of "fuck Hobbs & Shaw" but it's still part of the series none the less. With Hattie being a total badass and being central to the plot instead of a side character I do think that they want women to be part of the story, but in my opinion, even though Hattie is a total badass, she's just a plot point she's not actually involved in her own story a la Natalie Portman in Thor: The Dark World. If you took that virus out of Hattie's blood she no longer becomes relevant to this story, and it still all resolves around Hobbs & Shaw more than likely doing the bulk of the work to get the virus away from Eteon. She's kidnapped twice to be rescued by the two men, and in the final climax fight of the whole movie she's regulated to sitting in the rain with a gun pointed at her head. To me, this isn't badass empowering writing. This is lazy "feminism" that is stuck in the early 2000s. But honestly the thing that frustrated me the most is that this didn't even pass The Bechdel Test. It would've been so fucking easy for them to do. They had multiple named women who were literally standing in the same room together, but never once do any of them address each other, instead they talk to the men about things the other woman brought up instead. The female guard with Helen Mirren doesn't have a name - Fail Hattie is the only woman on her entire team - Fail Eiza is the only named and speaking woman on her team - Fail Hobb's daughter never speaks to the woman she is staying with - Fail Hattie and Eiza stand face to face and only talk to Hobbs & Shaw - Fail Hobbs's mother doesn't have a name (she is named on IMDB but they never once say it in the movie) - Fail There are no lines between Helen Mirren and Hattie at the end of the movie - Fail It's the simplest of things that in 2019 should literally be the bare minimum for writing female characters. I'm not asking for the entire story to be changed, because honestly the overarching thing doesn't bother me despite poking holes in the "baddassery" of it. But to not have two women even speak to each other when they're literally standing face to face discussing ultimate plans for how to get a blood machine is absolutely ridiculous. Literally I just want women to be able to talk to each other about things not related to men. That would be grand.

It's a shame that Jason Momoa wasn't able to appear as The Rock's brother, considering Roman Reigns was also in the movie, and the two of them are constantly told that they look like the other.

Long time listener, first time commenter. I saw this as a kid and actually didn't like it so I listened to the episode and with that mindset, firmly Team Sanity. Then I decided to rent it to really dig in - I actually like it more than I remember. Also does Lizzie's father have the same accent as Fred? I wonder if there is some sort of correlation between the two.

I cannot make up because I'm a possum impersonating a human woman but I love make up and other people's abilities to use it. I'm very much on board for a How Did This Get Made Up segment on Wig Talk

Out of curiosity I was looking at the differences between HDTGM film release dates and the dates that their corresponding episodes are posted, just to see what the "most recent HDTGM movie" has been over time. H&S is just barely in the top 10, at 13 days post-release date. Not too surprisingly all three Sharknado films are in the top 5 (for example, Sharknado 2 was officially released July 30, 2014 and the episode is dated August 1) and the remaining 2 are Nic Cage films that were covered very early: Season of the Witch and Drive Angry. This data will of course eventually go into the info site, which is gradually gathering more and more meaningless pieces of info to help you all settle bar bets between HDTGM fans.

Episode stats: H&S is in the top 5 most expensive HDTGM films, along with Spiderman 3, The Fate of the Furious, Green Lantern, and Furious 7. Jason Statham now has been in 9 HDTGM films, in second place behind voiceover master Frank Welker. H&S is the second film of 2019 to be covered; the other one is of course Serenity, everybody's new favorite video game movie. Guest host Adam Scott has been in 8 HDTGM episodes (Fast Five, F&F 6, Glitter, Furious 7, xXx: Return of Xander Cage, Fate of the Furious, The Meg, and H&S) placing him in a tie for first place with Jessica St. Clair for most number of episodes. JSC goes to first place if you count Valerian, the Stitcher-only episode, but I go by the Earwolf list which doesn't list it.

When The Rock did the double shot of Tequila and had it go down his chin, I'm pretty sure that was a nod to The Rock's long time friend, "Stone Cold" Steve Austin. Whose gimmick was to grab a bunch of beers and drink them after the match. One of a whole punch of WWE references in this movie, which is to be expected with The Rock, even going as far as casting his cousin, Roman Reigns, who was basically there to do a bunch of his moves in the Samoan fight scene. Speaking of Roman, one thing that wasn't brought up on the podcast is that he filmed his scenes in the move, while he was going through a battle with leukemia. Dude was running round spearing motherfuckers, and driving around in high-powered trucks, while he was getting treatment for leukemia!

So I haven't had a chance to see the movie yet. I know they go to Samoa but are they going to the country Samoa or the American Samoa territory? Fun facts the country of Samoa has no military and should they need an army relies on New Zealand's military. Ironically the American Samoa territory has the largest U.S military enlistment than any other state or territory. However citizens of America Samoa cannot vote for President, and are not considered nationalized citizens at birth. It's truly fucked up.

I'm fighting a weeklong migraine and misunderstood who Vanessa Kirby is. For some reason ( meds. Full on hardcore meds) I thought they were talking about Vanessa BAYER from SNL. Vanessa Kirby: Vanessa Byer: Two VERY different women. I'm not going to lie though I loved the idea of Hobbs and Shaw with Vanessa Bayer more .

(You take care)

As has been established in previous HDGTM she should have gone into a restroom and splashed water on her face in order to do that. Let's not make excuses for bad decisions.

Agree with everything here, and even though I knew that Drop Dead Fred was meant to be a stand in for her father it didnt even occur to me how on the money they were with both Fred and her father having English accents. I also have to commend the movie on its ending being a bit ahead of its time, I feel like it would have been easier for them to wrap things up with Lizzie ending up with Mickey. I really like the fact that the movie ended with her on her own.

I was at the live recording of this episode, and found myself surprised by how much of the conversation centered on what exactly this movie was saying, as opposed to how it was saying that. My own interpretation of the movie is a bit different in places from what June and Jason said, but I felt like I needed to come here to provide some counterpoints to what Paul and Casey said. Team "Sanity" seemed to view this purely as a horror story. In doing so, they missed the obviously intended, although less than perfectly executed, message of the movie. I thought it was clear that the movie was, broadly speaking, the story of a person who had a traumatic, repressive childhood, was forced to abandon her inner child, forced to abandon her means of addressing her issues, and then grew into a repressed adult. As an adult, she recovers her means of dealing with her issues, and escapes toxic influences. While doing so, she is able to reintegrate her whimsical and free-spirited personality traits. Fred, and his intervention in her life, is meant to serve as an allegory of sorts for how this might happen. Fred is, like Jason said, basically pure id. He also takes on the traits(e.g. the English accent) of the father Elizabeth wishes was present and supportive. He also has the mindset of the 5-6 year old boys Elizabeth would have known at the age Fred first appeared. Thus, he is in some regards tailored toward what the younger Elizabeth would want or expect from a supportive friend. However, as a consequence of being pure Id with a stereotypical little boy's attitude, Fred's attempts to help aren't as productive, exact, or direct as they could be. In this way, Fred and his actions are a metaphor for how a traumatized, repressed person's mind tries to deal with those issues. People dealing with those issues aren't, at least most of the time, going to address them in the same direct and logical way they would address a physical injury. Their brain will come up with ways of coping, but those methods will be messy and often unsuccessful. To wit, the part of them dealing with the issue will be mostly subconscious and similar to Fred in its approach and effectiveness, albeit in a less over-the-top way. Fred, as Elizabeth's means of helping her resolve these issues and embrace her inner child, is messy and often misguided in his actions. However, he does eventually lead her towards resolving them. One example of him actually helping her do so was with Mickey. Mickey saw her breaking from the norm and liked it. Although he misunderstood the situation and turned out to be a bit crazy himself, his reaction showed Elizabeth that she could find people to accept and embrace her for breaking the repressive norms forced on her. Thus, he helped her move towards being an independent person who embraced her own weirdness. Paul said he thought it was a bit lackluster that Mickey was only "an option" for her at the end, but his being so was entirely the point. The movie shows Elizabeth becoming an independent woman and, as such, she wouldn't need to go from one guy to another. She would need to be able to accept herself and live on her own. Mickey showed her that she could do so without sacrificing the possibility of relationships, even if he wasn't exactly perfect for her. As for the issue of what Fred is, I take something of a middle ground between what we heard on the podcast. I think it is undeniable that Fred is tied to Elizabeth's mind. As such, he has taken on her id, repressed whimsical/childlike traits, subconscious impulses to rebel, and some of her memories. One sign of this is in the letter he writes that is supposedly from Charles. In order to write that letter, he would have to know things about their relationship and how Elizabeth would want Charles to view those parts of their relationship. Those things happened while Fred was trapped. If Fred were some completely independent being, he couldn't have known what to write. Further, at a salient moment late in the move, we see that he does indeed have traits of Elizabeth's hitherto repressed inner child. Elizabeth breaks a window and says "I love those window breaking noises!" Fred did the same earlier in the movie during a flashback. So, we see that as Elizabeth breaks free from her repressed state, she is integrating and expressing those attitudes that could previously be expressed only by a proxy. With that said, I think there is also a Monsters Inc.-esqe thing happening here. I think Fred and the other imaginary friends are meant to be independently existing beings that can move from child to child when their job is done, but they take on the attitudes, memories, etc. that the child is trying to deal with. This ties into how they are metaphors for how people respond to mental illness, trauma, repression, etc. Many people have such issues and may react to them in similar ways, but ultimately each individual is unique. Consequently, their defense mechanisms are tailored to their unique experiences. The imaginary friends similarly tailor themselves to the unique experiences of whichever child they are with. So, ultimately, Fred isn't just some completely independent being, but he isn't just an avatar doing the things Elizabeth was actually doing herself. This movie had its fair share of flaws in how it attempted to execute the plan its filmmakers had. The film didn't do a good enough job at establishing the "rules" of Fred, and Fred's motive was not always obvious enough through his over-the-top, often destructive actions. The movie is very flawed in that regard. With that said, the movie had more laughs than Paul gave it credit for. The restaurant scene, for example, was comedy gold. Ultimately, the ending left me glad I saw this movie, despite large portions that simply weren't as well executed as they could have been. So... #Team Fred

I didn't have any plans on rewatching this for the first time in 20+ years but this episode sold me on visiting it again. I'm very curious how I'll view this as an adult.

Can we get a Team Fred/Team Sanity poll on this thread?

Spoiler: The Fifth Element is Boron!

If they make an email address for questions to close out the Pro Version and don't use the forums... we must declare the forums dead.